Fungal Growth should be a debuff spell only, similar to the treatment AAM got.
Zerg already has Vipers for dealing with clusters of air units, Fungal combined with Parasitic Bomb makes fighting against Zerg late game in the air suicide unless you have nothing but T3 capitol ships since they have enough HP to survive PB+FG. Infestors also have infested Terrans which are great for AA.
The damage on Fungal Growth should also be removed so fighting late game Infestor-BL+base defense zerg is more manageable. Fungal would still be a very powerful debuff spell but now facing late game Zerg wouldnât be as hard as it is since chain-fungals would be gone. Allowing you to keep units alive enough to get in range or stay in range of the broodlords.
Removing the damage on Fungal helps a wide variety of units. It helps vikings, stalkers, carriers(interceptors), voidrays, phoenix, mutalisk, etc
Fungal Growth without damage would be similar to BWâs Ensnare or Maelstrom.
Honestly your logic is sound zerg has more than enough anti air tools and it makes no sense for them to have fungal and parasitic bomb. Also chain fungaling damage feels very cheap in game.
I disagree. Terran already has the tools to deal with Infestors and Vipers, and I believe Protoss too. Come on, only 2 Zergs made it to the Round of 8, and 1 to the semifinals of GSL Code S. Iâm unsure if thatâs good indicator of balance, but I like the dynamic Infestors have with bio, regarding fungal, Ultralisks and stuff. It allows you to play with Infestors without being too reliant on Ultralisks or whatever.
I disagree. Terran already has the tools to deal with Infestors and Vipers, and I believe Protoss too. Come on, only 2 Zergs made it to the Round of 8, and 1 to the semifinals of GSL Code S. Iâm unsure if thatâs good indicator of balance, but I like the dynamic Infestors have with bio, regarding fungal, Ultralisks and stuff. It allows you to play with Infestors without being too reliant on Ultralisks or whatever.
A big reason why Protoss is doing so many strong 2 base all-ins(not just because of the power of the WP) in PvZ is that many protoss feel late game PvZ is extremely hard to play after a certain point(This goes back to how Protoss late game in the form of carriers and HTâs got toned down but Zerg late game did not). This goes back to the Infestor again since frequently in both PvZ and TvZ late game Zergs will build the âdeath compâ consisting of several broodlords, corruptors and a bunch of infestors. With some vipers or queens mixed in for good measure.
Protoss has 1 AOE killing spell, Storm.
Terran has 0 AOE killing spells.
Zerg has 2 AOE killing spells, PB and Fungal.
Fungal should be made into a AOE debuff spell, leaving PB to be Zergâs AOE killing spell.
Itâs always been very cheap going back to the rooting days of the spell. Since not only does it stop other player from moving his units, but it also damages and can kill the other players units. The more infestors you have, the more Fungal you can do.
For all the whining about Storm, Storm doesnât also slow your units as it damages you.
The reason why Infestor-BL has always been so strong and frustrating to play against goes directly back to Fungal Growth doing damage. Since not only are you dying to the broodlings that are blocking your unit pathing on the ground, but you are also dying to Fungal which also stops you from getting close. If you try to fight off the Broodlords or Corruptors or pick off the Vipers from the air you just get chain fungal to death.
Debuff spells should not also do damage.
Timewarp(debuff spell, slow) doesnât do damage.
AAM(debuff spell, reduced armor) no longer does damage.
If the balance team is reading this, keep with the theme when it comes to Fungal(debuff spell, slow).
Widow mines and tanks do plenty of area damage but Terrans have nothing good according to them. Give a Zerg unit Siege mode right. I want a unit I can Siege on high ground and wipe out an invading army. Make Widow Mines just blow up once and die for racial equality.
Terran should have everything equal to other races but the other races canât have anything Terran. Let me burrow all my buildings and stall out the game like Terrans can when they float buildings. Protoss buildings should be able to warp to other places on the map as well. We want everything equal right?
Queens should auto heal like medivacs. ECT ECT.
Wait wait, my broodlord has zero abilities but BC has tactical jump and a cannon! We need to balance Brood Lordâs by dreaming up 2 energy abilities and making it available at 5 mins for racial equality right.
The Zerg Terran and Protoss should all be the same because who wants a game with variety!
Protoss recent streak of GSL domination is because of two things:
Strength of the warp prism.
Late game Zerg in PvZ being progressively harder to fight as the infestor count goes up because of the chain fungal damage that is possible. This encourages ending the game early to avoid late game.
Also many Pro players are talking about both sides of the ZvP story right now.
Protoss PvZ 2 base all-ins are stronger because of the warp prism pick up range.
Protoss is doing more 2 base all-ins in PVZ to avoid facing the infestor-BL deathball in late game PvZ. That deathball is strong because of mass infestor chain fungal.
Also AOE debuff spells should not also deal damage. It promotes mass spellcaster play, AOE spell spam and boring gameplay for both the players and the viewers.
So both the WP needs to be nerfed somehow(likely the pick up range) and Fungal Growth needs to be nerfed by removing the damage.
I really donât understand why this needs to be repeated, but people do all-ins and other early game things like that because they win games. Thatâs really all there is to it. Especially at the professional level, the most commonly used strategies will be the most successful ones. It doesnât matter if the late game is made easier if the early game cheeses are still strong.
What I mean is that Zerg requires to add static deffence to the army to actually fight the opponent army and have the line to withdraw to without dying. In both ZvP and ZvT late game. It means the actual Z army is weaker (Z wins be means of better late game production). And you want to make it even weaker.
Zergs build extra static D because itâs a great mineral dump that also helps in combat. If the enemy doesnât have any siege range units that can kill the spores or whatâs being protected by the spores you can just spore push across the map.
Spamming AOE debuff spells that also do damage is bad gameplay and bad balance design. This has been shown with AAM and the previous iteration of Fungal.
Zerg has Vipers and Infestors(even with the damage removed on fungal) as strong spellcasters with strong spells for the late game.
Protoss late troubles in PvZ has nothing to do with Fungal (that has been there a long time before), and WP range the same has been around for years. Balance of forces changed recently and the reason is that the soft/hard counter that kept the Viper/Infestors in check (both energetically and numerically) is no moreâŚ
Take the simple case of an Infestor, Carrier and HT.
Before the Infestor NPâed the Carrier and died immediately (releasing the Carrier) to the FB (Infestor remaining energy 100 > 90HP), now that it is not the caseâŚ
MyOh tries to make a bad situation worst (it will ruin further the ZvT) by inventing things, just to obfuscate the real issue at hand.
You are not wrong Kelt, however another reason why players will frequently do a 2 base timing is to kill the enemy before they get to the late game because they donât want to play a long late game macro game against that particular race.
So while yes PvZ Protoss 2 base all-ins are strong right now(because of the warp prism specifically), itâs only half of the story that everyone is focusing on and the other half is being drowned out by the âProtoss OP, nerf Protossâ.