Am I the only one feeling weird that, before Amon, everyone’s revenge seems fixated on emperor Mengsk but not the Zerg queen?
The same queen that has killed countless human and protoss lives by her own free will in both great wars? Why does she only get a slap on wrist?
Raynor, at least, is performing some pretty serious mental gymnastics to justify it to himself. He considers Sarah Kerrigan and the Queen of Blades to be different people, and that he “killed” the QoB at the end of Wings of Liberty. I don’t think anybody else who would care about that really actually gets over it, its just that the need to work with her is stronger than the desire to punish her for it. For Kerrigan’s part, she doesn’t distinguish between herself and the QoB, but considers her actions post HotS, both directing the Swarm against Amon and away from the other races, and later becoming a Xel’naga, as penance.
There’s really only two Terrans to work with based on WoL leadership, Raynor’s Raiders and Arcturus’ Terran Dominion.
Raynor doesn’t go after Kerrigan simply because he starts off with a really small force, and the moment he finally starts building it up again, Zeratul shows up with the whole doomsday prophecy stuff going on claiming that Kerrigan needs to live.
As for Arcturus, he’s just enjoying his time as the all-powerful leader of the Dominion again. He couldn’t care less about going after Kerrigan at the time.
If you want to include the Aiur Protoss, the best assumption is that they’ve just been on Shakuras the whole time continuing to rebuild.
The writing of Starcraft has always been questionable to some degree since SC1. It just got increasingly sloppy in each game.
SC1 obviously went through rewrites and breezes through a plot that would have been better explained if it took place over a period of years. Due to the rushed narrative, key plot points feel like plot devices: psi-emitter, QoB, dark templar killing immortal cerebrates, redrawing the political map…
BW relies on fairly sloppy plot contrivances like people trusting QoB or Duran, a magic temple that conveniently kills only zerg, etc.
What’s weird about SC2 is that it has a well-defined status quo compared to prior games that isn’t being challenged. Where the Confederacy, Conclave, Overmind and UED were introduced and killed in the same games respectively, by contrast the Dominion, post-QoB Swarm and Daelaam are seemingly immortal.
I personally prefer the prior governments if only because they just seem more interesting imo and deserve further exploration.
I found it very consistent, actually.
Starcraft 1 starts out with Sarah Kerrigan as a principled do-gooder heroine who ends up in love with Jim Raynor. Then, she gets infested.
This visibly alters as what she is. She manipulates everybody and betrays them, sometimes more than once. She skillfully uses what everybody thought Sarah Kerrigan to be to pretend she was still that person, and then she turns out to be an evil monster that ends up on top by screwing everybody over.
While she is vastly more powerful than the average infested Terran, all you have to do in SC1 is infest a Command Center, produce an Infested Terran and repeatedly click on him. An infested Terran is a Zerg puppet, and Sarah Kerrigan was the same. She was made by the Overmind to escape his overriding directive by Amon, but though she gained the independence the Overmind sought of her, she still ended up tainted and twisted, no longer the person she once was.
Then, Raynor cleansed her using the artifact, and she honestly didn’t remember most of what she did. This has to be true because when she comes back to the Leviathan, she clearly only remembers tiny bits, though at that point she has no incentive to hide what she knew. For example, she remembers Izsha, but while she has rage at Abathur, she doesn’t even remember why, (it was because it was he who made her from human to QoB.) She has to re-learn things as basic as the Brood Mothers being her intermediaries with the Swarm. Keep in mind she is the one that created Brood Mothers to begin with; the Overmind used Cerebrates.
When Kerrigan becomes QoB the second time, she is no longer being influenced by Amon and while she looks similar, she is vastly greater in power and independence. She remarks on both, saying everything has changed and that never again will the Zerg be pawns of other races.
She then inculcates human values into the Zerg. Abathur is relieved when she tells him no more experimentation on humans. Before this, she wanted him to put failed experiments out of their misery, which he initially didn’t understand becuase it didn’t impact experiment success or failure. Zagara starts out wanting to take the Swarm from her, but when Kerri is critically injured in her fight with Narud, Zagara saves her, and at this point you can see she follows Kerri out of loyalty and not of fear.
Keep in mind this is only true of QoB past cleansing, not of the original QoB. Even after she believed Raynor was now dead, she still behaved this way.
And of course, there’s the fact that after Raynor cleansed her, even after she became QoB again, she genuinely cares about human life, valuing the same in Valerian and agreeing to hold back the Swarm during the invasion of Korhal to avoid civilian casualties. This is what convinces Raynor that she’s his Sarah again, not what she was as QoB in SC1. This is because the QoB in SC1 was a treacherous morally-dead expletive that would never behave this way,.
Nice! You might reinvigorate this whole corner of our forum, yet. Be it in flame and all! Please don’t disappear!
Thanks! I generally hang out in the co-op forum; people there don’t mind occasional campaign posts.
The problem with discussing campaign is that past Nova Mission Packs they don’t seem to have any interest in continuing the story via campaign. While there’s a lot to talk about, it IS finite. I gotta admit I am quite the campaign junkie.
Err… Here is a thing; over time a lot of posters come here defending Kerrigan. And it always ignite a lot of debate about how evil she is without fail. We even have a nickname for a person who defends her, calling him/her ‘red head’.
Your post is a bit different than usual in that it’s quite well-reasoning. I’m going to grab popcorn and see how this play out.
Well, she was evil as QoB the first time, which seems to have been Amon’s darkness tainting her, and she remarks on that several times. Before her first infestation, after the first infestation was cleansed, and her as QoB the second time it was all her as the same person, though she gained vastly more power and learned to be a tough and pragmatic leader. Though becoming Xel’naga was a great sacrifice, she chose to go through with it because her actions had ruined so many lives and she felt she needed to atone for this.
Arcturus Mengsk never had problems with ruining lives and there was no foreign influence that made him that way.
The only time she was different from what she was originally was her first stint as QoB, and I think there’s quite a bit of evidence through the campaigns that she was not herself during that, and Raynor and everybody else accepted that. I don’t think that’s a blind defense of her; I think that’s accurately what happened to her and why she was a heroine in the series rather than a villain.
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/8344294839Becoming an omnipotent god and living happily ever with Raynor is a great reward for…wait…you’re saying it’s supposed to be a punishment?
Only if their defense consists of nonsense.
Which not always the case fortunately.
Church of Mengsk is protection, not oppression.
Yeah, but those whose defend is sensible usually give up and concede to our point long before name calling is justified. So I’m not sure what we would call someone persistent and rational.
You’re looking at this from the vantage point of victory, once Amon was dead.
At the time Kerri made the decision to become Xel’naga, she did so by separating herself from the Swarm, which was her existence, she had to take in so much energy that none of them were sure she could survive taking it all in, she was being attacked by Void Thrashers as she did so, and all this wonderful stuff merely made it possible for her to duel Amon, who was literally a god. Raynor tried to convince her not to go through with it because it would lead to her being mutilated again; she went through with it to take responsibility for all the damage she caused as QoB; didn’t really seem to me she was happy about it, per se – or Raynor.
Once she won, she did spirit away Raynor from Joeyray’s and they lived happily ever after. I am just saying none of them knew that part was coming.
Depends on if we’re meaning the main cast or the populace. Because the populace still HATES the QoB and wants her dead. Most of the main cast still hates her too. But each character has a different reason for not trying to kill her immediately. Some reasons are more pragmatic than emotional. And after she became more on their side than against their side, it’s hard to turn down the aid of an ally like that.
Mengsk had no such protection by political circumstance. His would-be successor was already on good terms with the protagonists. And much of the Dominion citizenry was tired of him. So it’s not so much people favor punishing Mengsk over Kerrigan, it’s just that there was no reason to keep Mengsk around. Getting rid of him was the better alternative for most parties at play. Kerrigan was at that point in time a cooperating asset. There was no reason to believe any zerg who succeeded her would be as friendly with the Terrans. And in all likelihood, the party who replaced her as zerg leader would be Amon himself. So keeping her around was in everyone’s best interest at the time of the End War.
Then you have Jimmy who just wanted his girlfriend back.
I think this likely changed over time. The Protoss and the Zerg were implacable enemies, but after Artanis and Kerri met on Ulnar to seek the Xel’naga, they were definitely not on “I think this one will betray me” terms. When they successfully get out alive, Kerri advises Artanis to seek out allies because, (in her exact words) “survival is never pretty.”
In the end, when Kerri becomes Xel’naga, Artanis says, “she is Xel’naga” and kneels before her. Given what the Protoss are and how they behave, that is not something the leader of the Protoss would do in fakery or jest.
So, I think with that declaration by Artanis and the kneel, we can safely conclude that the Protoss no longer hated her, with the possible exception of Alarak and his crew. Artanis usually managed to convince his generals of his opinion.
In regards to the Terran Dominion, I am not sure there was universal hate for Kerri either. After Arcturus Mengsk is dethroned, it’s certain that it became known that he was responsible for Kerri being the QoB in the first place. It would be known that the second QoB was different from the first because she came to Korhal after Mengsk and took serious risks to her victory there to allow civilians to be evacuated. As QoB the first time, she wouldn’t have cared.
That, and she’s the direct reason Amon lost, and the Terran Dominion under Valerian got hammered hard in that part of the Campaign. Horner and Valerian remark that Moebius Corps did tons more damage to Augustgrad than the Zerg did. Knowing that level of threat was neutralized probably didn’t hurt Kerri’s chances with them either – but she was Xel’naga by this point and safely enjoying divine retirement with Jim, so in a way it no longer mattered.
As to Valerian having no cause to be loyal to his father, keep in mind that in the start of HotS, Arcturus is fine blowing away the Hyperion with Valerian on board. “My father will sacrifice any piece on the chess board to take the queen.” Not much reason for Valerian to have loyalty at that point.
In Kerrigan’s case, it actually is. That’s because the only thing that Kerrigan has ever really wanted for herself at the end of the day was to be a normal person; no powers, no world-ending nonsense. She’s just always been pulled into that stuff either by outside parties or by herself because she felt there was no alternative. So to completely obliterate any chance of either death or normalcy is, to her, a punishment.
Then you have to consider the lifespan of the xel’naga. They literally exist for the cycles of whole universes and only disappear over time due to sheer entropy. Raynor will be with her for awhile. But then he won’t be. And she’s not going to continue the infinite cycle. So she has literally billions, maybe even trillions of years to exist with her least-favorite person; herself.
While the “payoff” of Kerrigan’s redemption for us as viewers is sh**ty and I kind of hate it, when you think about what it means from a character pov then Kerrigan becoming a xel’naga is indeed a punishment. Perhaps the worst kind of punishment for her personally, because she’s wanted to die since her deinfestation. She has a strong desire to see herself punished. Denying her the kind of punishment she wants is doing her a disservice. It’s just not an emotionally-satisfying punishment for the viewers.
I think the Protoss have a good chance of seeing Kerrigan in a new light over time. Not all of them certainly. And it won’t be as unified a feeling as it was before with the Khala. But they are an enlightened people, moreso than the terrans. Artanis came to respect her on a personal level. So the race as a whole will probably view her with more forgiving eyes as time wears on. Though their opinions are hardly a monolith.
In the end, when Kerri becomes Xel’naga, Artanis says, “she is Xel’naga” and kneels before her.
Yeah, but he was still preeeetty salty about it in the book Evolution. There was a strong sense of “Why was Kerrigan allowed to my people’s legacy?” He felt kind of robbed. While iirc he came to terms with that a bit by book’s end, he was nonetheless bitter about the whole occurrence.
As for the Terrans, I doubt they will ever see her in a positive light. Most of the citizenry does not know the details of Amon’s fall or Kerrigan’s role. So to them, she will always be the Queen of Blades who slaughtered their kind by the billions.
Kerrigan will likely be viewed as a tragic figure, ultimately. The universe kept crapping on her in the worst possible ways, and she persevered and eventually found a measure of peace, but they don’t really like or approve of the ways and methods she had to employ.
Most terrans don’t even know that Kerrigan was human in the first place. Some of the more informed can make an educated guess, but as far as theyre concerned she began and ended with the Swarm.
I think it’s very likely the Terrans came to know about everything that happened to Kerri, actually.
Valerian’s original reason for approaching Raynor and his Raiders was to get Kerri back to her human form and prove, through that, that he rehabilitated the worst of the worst and was thereby a worthy successor to his father. This is a good chunk of the WoL campaign, where they’re gathering the pieces of the Keystone without knowing why. Valerian provided the why.
I think Valerian’s character concept was changed over time. In WoL he seems devious in a bad way and after power. Raynor, upon seeing him talk on TV, says, “great, now I have two of them to worry about.” There’s a smarmy quality about him.
In HotS and LotV, he loses that smarmy quality and becomes the Emperor his people need. In the Nova mission packs, he refuses the very sane recommendation by Nova to take out Davis, because he is afraid that by killing her instead of bringing her to trial he would be using his father’s methods. As I recall, 77% of the Dominion populace agreed with the need to take out Davis due to what she had done and the threat she represented; but Valerian was sufficiently afraid of becoming like his father that he put himself and his rule at risk by continuing to try and get her into custody alive to stand trial.
As to how all this ties to you guys’ original points:
With all this in play, I think it is certain that Valerian would talk about what his father did to Kerrigan and how it impacted the citizens of the Dominion after. At the very least, he’d have to explain to his citizens why he sided with Raynor, whom his father hated, and why Raynor and his allies were justified at removing his father from power, which required a war.
I am definitely extrapolating here, but I think it’s an educated guess based on the facts. If he wanted to prove he was a worthy successor by rehabilitating Kerri, he would logically divulge this in the course of becoming Emperor in order to cement legitimacy. After all his work to cleanse her, and his reason for cleansing her, it wouldn’t make sense to keep quiet about it. And after Raynor already aired Arcturus’s dirty laundry via the Media Blitz mission, Valerian would have to explain just how far that went: the creation of the original QoB, and how that played out, and also her re-emergence and need for revenge against his father. Taking out his own dad to assume power both seemed very bad, despite what Arcturus was, and also much different than what was actually happening. Valerian asked Kerri to spare the civilians and she agreed. Not exactly something he would see as necessary to keep from those civilians in the aftermath, especially since he needed to explain himself to gain legitimacy as newly-crowned Emperor.
I do admit, however, that there’s nothing in the Campaign itself that explicitly speaks to these things, it’s just me making an educated guess based on what I do know.
Sure, but you can’t argue that Kerrigan sacrificed anything in the end. It’s nice that she felt godhood was going to be some kind of punishment for her (cry me a river), but she never really got punished for unleashing the most dangerous biological weapon in the universe against millions of innocent people in HoTS for petty revenge. She even said in HoTS that she would face justice eventually and then never does.
I thought her desire was to be with Raynor, not the swarm. Pick one or the other.
Needs citation.
She’s neigh-omnipotent. She can either kill herself or lead a normal life in secret. Definitely an upgrade from being the disgusting queen of the bug monsters.
I can get behind that, just not the logistics of it.