That’s how the tension should be. In terms of macro mechanics Protoss has to choose between boosting economy with chrono or making battle units faster or accelerating upgrades. Terran has to choose between economy or info or supply. Zerg should choose too. But no…zerg only chooses economy because it can make Queens and defend anything.
Really? If literally any pro game is something to go off, it seems like Protoss needs 8 bases to keep up with 5 base BL/infestor. Maybe you should just learn how to hive tech.
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They try to throw falacies on the wall thinking or hoping no one has at least 2 brain cells to refute them.
broodlords don’t do anything anymore they are as useful as ultralisk. skytoss deathballs are impenetrable for anyone below 7k mmr which means that toss never has to remax which means they easily stay in game off of 4 bases while killing all zerg units meaning zerg constantly has to remax which means zerg has to constantly take bases if you played any zvp late game youd know this
Getting your first inject slightly earlier is nothing compared to how much economy you would lose buy having to make units to defend early game aggression. You really have no idea how Zerg works if you think you can make gas units in the early game as Zerg and not significantly hurt your economy.
Protoss already has a significant eco lead in the early game and this would make it so much worse.
Zerg definitely could use such buffs.
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Broodlords beat 99% of all ground units. Ultralisk despite being Godzilla sized, cannot push units out of the way and dance around.
Nice of you to think of me as a 7k Zerg, but I’m below 5k and still easily beat skytoss balls against Protoss higher rated than me. Without a huge eco advantage. Just because Zerg isn’t heavily advantaged against skytoss doesn’t make it “impenetrable”.
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So you admit Zerg doesn’t have to even make units right now?
No, you are spoiled to think that Zerg deserves to get to build nothing but workers, and take a super fast third.
Well guess what. If you don’t have queens, that means 2 key things: 1 you get your first injects faster on all the hatches, that’s 4 extra injects for hatch before pool. 12 extra larva. Larva you can easily spend because you no longer have to spend money on queens, saving you minerals you can use to not have to pull drones off gas.
Before Protoss lost mothership core, how many people opened with 2 gates just to stay alive in PvZ? Oh that’s right, nobody did. And how many units would you make from your gate? Oh that’s right, usually only 2 maybe 3 adepts, and the rest was up to mama core. And what did Protoss do with the money from not making those extra units? Why, they would get faster tech and a much faster third at the same time. If we were to believe you, we would have to believe that the removal of the mothership core would have made Protoss a completely unviable race and that it is impossible for a Zerg to lose to a Protoss.
Removing queens and making the hatchery chose between creep tumors and injects while making hydras hatch tech is a buff to Zerg overall, it means more drones in the very early game, meaning a faster ramp up. It saves you money, and earns you more money and more larva. The drawbacks are that it forces you to make real units in response to the units your enemy makes, and it reduces the power of pull the queen all-ins while also making all-ins a little less all-in because you still get injects and more larva, and it makes mass creep less of a problem in the mid game. All 3 of which sound like things that Zerg is always getting nerfs to because for some reason we can’t seem to solve these problems. Looking at all the recent critical nerfs to Zerg I can think of, all of them can be traced back to queens. So let’s stop beating around the bush and finally torch the real problem: the queen
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Lol what nonsense, go try to play zerg taking a second gas early and teching fast like youre terran or protoss, see how far it gets you lol.
Zerg needs more units to be effective which means it needs to focus on an economy early on which means delaying gas.
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its funny how nobody mention how removing queens would COMPLETELY destroy zvz. 1base baneling allins would be the absolute standard play, since theres no way for zerg to defend this without queens.
the thing is, even if queens would get removed somehow… does ANYBODY here really believe, that the whining would stop?
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You don’t need a second gas early. You just need to not pull all your drones off gas once you start ling speed. Right now, Zerg goes 0 gas.
Seem unlikely, considering standard third timing in ZvZ is 2:30 with only 2 queens. If ling bane can defend your third just fine, I don’t see why ling bane wouldn’t hold a second. Absolute worst cast scenario, ling bane wars start up on 2 base instead of 3 base. But 1 base ling/bane would always die to 2 base ling/bane, same way 2 base ling/bane dies to 3 base ling/bane right now.
No. That would be wishful thinking. However the nydus nerfs, the creep nerfs, the overlord speed revert, the lack of buffs against cannon rush/proxy battery, the lack of BC nerfs. All of these can be traced back to the queen. So really, I do think that without the queen everyone would ultimately be better off.
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Im talking about 1base ling bane allins with 12 or 14 pool. This strat would be absolutely broken, since the only way to stop it right now are queens to focus banes and block the ramps.
Blocking the ramps is btw the how to hold semi allins, where the other zerg goes for pool first into hatch with a speedling attack.
You simply CANT remove the queen, or we would see 12pool and 1base allins every zvz.
Inject on hatchery ? Hell no it is way too easy, you don’t need hotkey queens and sometimes they wander off. It is way too easy !!! Protoss got automatic everything and look now how easy this race is, 80 apm to gm…
Might be shocking to you, but these are asymetrical designed races. So just because terran and protoss have chono on mule on the actual building, doesn’t mean zerg has to. Queens are fine, people need to stop beating a dead horse.
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Well…easier would be making Queen only one per Hatchery.
That is a straight nerf, not a redesign. We’re not probably not going to see a change like that until SC3. And I do hope SC3 makes a change like that.
With this post, you are showing that you do NOT want a balanced game. You want Zerg to be underpowered. Creep spread is as important as inject and the game is balanced around multiple Queens being available for that.
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You really don’t know anything about the game, do you? Honestly, how whiny can you be?
Protoss has a significant worker lead against Zerg in the early game and you still whine that Zerg is too greedy. And that’s considering Zerg is the race that’s supposed to have a better economy.
Honestly, I should just stick to mocking whiners in this place because trying to have an actual conversation about the game with people like you is a waste of time.
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That’s a real thing? Would that be with slow lings? I want to try this.
Well, technically you could go 1 base roach. So it would actually be more likely to turn into Rock Paper Scissors where you picked your plan at the 15 second mark. Which isn’t great.
Strictly untrue, except when a ton of drones die to oracles and adepts.
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