Been there, done that. I remember you when I was new in this forum and you was insulting me for no reason. Then I ignored you. This time you are not gonna get away with this you are really poison to this forum and do us all a favor and leave the forum.
This is what I’m getting at.
If he (meaning Sentry) could admit that the indicators look pretty damning, we could all just agree then and then forget about it.
There’s a guy names “Fabros” I believe (he’s not super active here). He told me he thinks the MMR difference between Terran and Protoss is around 150. I think it’s more like 400, but at that point it’s just speculation.
Instead it’s always “the indicators that I want to matter are the only ones that matter.” Namely, that Protoss doesn’t win tournaments. Protoss actually does win tournaments, in large numbers, but they don’t win Premiers. There’s less than 10 players in an given year that win a Premier, so I’d find it much more likely that you see an under representation when your sample size is 10.
That said, all statistics are relevant. Protoss has been under performing at the highest levels for too long to be random, in my opinion. But the idea that 50,000 Terran are all just magically bad, is far more unlikely and plain stupid.
Calling you a noob, because your noob isnt insulting you, thats just what you are. Noob is not an insult, it means you are new and a beginner at the game and that you suck at it cause you are new. Sorry but thats facts dude, thats what a noob is. If you think of it as an insult than maybe you should get better and come back when your not a noob. Sorry you dont like it but you need to take that up with the entire gaming community about the name of noob should be changed. I didnt make up the name or the meaning, im just using it the way it should be used in context, which in all aspect of this game you are a total noob. tuff cookies mate. If you dont like it dont play video games.
Secondly, there is nothing in the blizzard forums that says stating facts is a bad thing to do. If you dont like that i point out facts to you, again tuff cookies. Stop being so a thin skin weak willed individual.
Dude you’re all of 200 MMR higher than him…
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i dont compare mmr mate, its pointless. the only thing im comparing of his is he is new to the game, plain and simple dudes got like 3k games altogether between both his account. Thats not alot of play time with this game. I pull 3k a season sometimes. Ps i also dont play 1v1, just team games and coop. My total 1v1 games aint even a hundred and yet im still have over 3k mmr. also before you even say im gonna say compared to you with your 28k game i am a noob, and proud of it, cause i dont take offence to something so silly, like he does, plus also i give credit where credit is due and 28k games is pretty impressive, compared to my 10k, well done my man.
10k games and still platin dude you are really the noob here
lol, if you say so bud, but your only fooling yourself.
Verbatim, my basic argument is that this is illogical. The skill level of players should be evenly distributed across the population.
The most important part of my post is this: Why would there being more Terrans mean that the average Terran is less skilled?
The average is just that: average. While the upper echelon leagues and MMRs are somewhat stuck, the number of players outside of GM should be distributed evenly -
That’s what the game being balanced means. That if you pick up Race B, once you get over the initial learning curve, your successes / win rate / mmr should equal out based on your skill level at the game and that race’s specific tricks.
In turn, that should mean that - as, for each player, this process has happened - The percentage of {race} in {league} should correlate strongly with what percentage of the population is playing that race; and not be equalized across the races.
If they are equal across the races, that can imply, as suggested, that the mastery curve for (most popular race) is extremely high, and for (least popular race) it’s comparatively easy - because the skill level of the population at large is not a dynamic variable; and it is beyond unrealistic to suggest that there is such a hugely significant number of outliers that all happen to pick Terran.
Anecdotally, for instance, a bunch of my friends refuse to play Terran because it’s Terran, the boring race, the humans, the ones that don’t have wacky mechanics compared to the prototypical RTS basic formula like the entire Age series relies on.
This is, to quote my mother, caca del toro; and can never be anything more. That’s not how a normal distribution works.
The average mmr of Terran (population) does not go down when you add more players, because when you add more players you also add more skilled players.
That should be true If the Race Selection wasnt biased. Since the Population of sc2 is this different its clearly biased. The usual methods of analysing dont really apply Here because we dont know for Sure why terran is much much popular or why they are especially popular in lower leagues.
In Other words: we dont have a normal distribution.
The Most logical Argument is that because terrans are Humans and Play Like every Other Standard RTS faction people Pick it because its the Most familiar. Its the Race that you basically start the Game with because all Tutorials and campaigns start with terran.
That way it would make Sense that especially Casual Players Pick terran. (Only a larger amount and that doesnt mean that all terrans are Casual obviously; seems reasonable since the avg mmr for bottom 50 percent is Equal. They dont have it Harder, there are Just more of Them)
I mean yeah, it could be but this is an assumption. Based on my assumption there are simply way more casuals for terrans to Begin with. And casuals wont advance. They dont really Care about progressing ladder and getting competitive. I assume that each Race has a similar amount of Players who are really getting into sc2 which is why the Population of terran goes from 46% representation in Bronze/silver to Like 37% in gold and further going down to 33% for masters (Note that we also have random as a Race so terran is still basically leading every League).
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I am saying since the beginning that your Argument is pretty dumb since the Population difference is that high.
But you simply ignored it(Like the fact that i Just Split the Population to 50/50 which you didnt even realize). So i needed to do it another way. A way you cant refute.
So now we have 2 Things: drawing conclusions Out of the Population to mmr Ratio is nuts because the Selection is clearly biased and If we Look at bottom 50% and top 50% the avg mmr is the Same so terran Just has more Players that are Casual, but it doesnt mean its Harder.
Just Accept the fact that there is no Hidden Agenda to keep terrans down. No, the Game is Not terribly unfair for terran. And No, nothing seems “damning” lmao. The Red pill again…
Okay, cool. Then Protoss is also “less popular” amongst the Premier Tournament winning elite.
That doesnt make any Sense and doesnt have anything to do with the Point at Hand.
(the relevance is that it is literally a find-replace of your argument)
It has everything to do with the point at hand. Your hypothesis is that Terran is more popular amongst the least skilled. In essence, stating that you can explain the subjective reasoning behind 100K+ individuals.
I’m telling you I understand the reasonings behind 10 or so.
This is Not a Hypothesis. This is a fact.
Nope. That isnt it. You cant compare the actual balance (sc2 is balanced around pro play) to the statement that xyz race is harder.
Its apples to oranges.
There is more to a game than balance. A relevant factor is also design (for example during the void ray patch the game itself was way more balanced but the design was awful because protoss was too safe and only spammed voids) or how hard it is to do something vs how hard it is to stop something (for example splitting marines vs banes; much easier to move command banes and let them crush into marines than it is to presplit/split marines so they dont take dmg to the splash). This is what david kim talked about in hsc 2019. He learned that design is also a very very very important factor and that balance is not everything. Only because you can beat something doesnt mean its fun or designed in an equal way.
Bourne (the barcode guy) rants about the design/ the difficulty of terran and not about the balance itself, at least thats what im assuming from his statements because i recall him saying that toss needs help at pro level but also advocates a redesign of protoss (i advocate it too).
Although the design doesnt need to be equal or equally good the balance is definetly good for 99.99% of the players as there is no race that is actually “dominating” the ladder. No race is actually outperforming the other races and only for top pro play protoss doesnt seem to be competitive. And thats why protoss are getting buffs (well at least the balance council acts like they want to fix the issue, but…they dont. i too could be a bourne and spam 300000 posts about how protoss is not competitive on pro play and its in fact mostly due to balance. they didnt achieve much in last 7 years and i accept that there are a dozen of reasons but in actual recent history protoss is on an alltime low and pro players as well as most of the community agrees that protoss needs help and obviously also the balance council. but this is not the reason im losing my matches…i dont actually play actively)
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You do realize that the term “less skilled,” in and of itself, makes that a statement of opinion.
You realize that its an objective fact that terran Players in bottom 50% have the Same mmr meaning they are Not doing better or worse than any Other Race meaning there are Just more terran Players?
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Yes, this is a fact.
Wild speculation.
Again, you split them by MMR and now you’re shocked that they have similar MMR…
No its a fact that they arent doing better or worse. They wouldnt have the same mmr if it wasnt the case.
I split them by 50% of the population (i still think you dont get what bottom 50% or top 50% means? Only because its magically fitting with bronze to gold and plat to gm…shocking isnt it? maybe its magically that way because blizzard designed it to be that way? SHOCKING!!) and yes, i am actually shocked that im seeing that they have similar mmr. Because that wasnt expected or easy to see.
You yourself stated that a lowlevel terran would probably better if he switched races. Turns out, no, because other lowlevel players of other races actually have the same mmr on average.
AGAIN, because you are missing the point: Its actually a very important observation that the mmr is pretty similar. Because it could be that the average terran would be silver 3 but the average zerg could be gold3 meaning 1 whole league apart (in bottom 50%). But we dont see that.
That means: Lowlevel players are in low leagues because? Because they are bad and not because of the race. Now that is truly SHOCKING, isnt it?