Except that when I googled macro liquidpedia I got a different section on macro. I couldn’t even find the excerpt that you used. Did you write it yourself?
So try some google! Read it! Then see how it aligns with the points that I’ve already made about the macro differences between P2 and P3. If you can do that and show some basic understandings then maybe the “discussion” can continue!
Your next mission will be to just try to at least imagine how playing P2 and P3 might be different with the affect of environmental mutators and try to just imagine how it might increase the difficulty of each prestiges macro differently.
Finally someone made the point that unit refunds affects macro and you again made out like they completely missed the point and yet maybe it is you that missed the point?
Wouldn’t it be easier if you just provided the definition you found, which is apparently so different? Troll much?
Easier than you googling one thing and reading the first thing that comes up?
It is the problem that you ignore any evidence that doesn’t align with your world view.
Make a little effort, who knows you might learn something for once.
I provided the one I found for the purpose of discussion. You seem very butthurt ever since I said your gameplay was mediocre (which btw isn’t a bad thing at all)… please understand I don’t owe you anything, certainly not going to “google first thing that come up”, as search results are tailored by region/location/history. You really don’t seem to get the basics of anything… and it shows with every post.
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Certainly could care less what you think about my gameplay based on a single game. Definitely made more of an impression on me that you immediately backed out of any more challenging games, I suppose you realise that playing on higher levels of B+ would reveal your ineptitude out of the limited gameplay that you engage in.
You don’t seem to understand what macro is which I spent 2 minutes googling to confirm. You keep asking me to repeat points that I’ve already made. Do you need me to find simpler language? Or could you just actually read it and not cherry pick constantly?
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As I said, I’m happy to discuss things if I could see what makes you feel so differently. (How did you think I found my definition? Lol, you can’t truly believe I just made it up 
. If so, you are even more delusional than I thought.)
I don’t have your particularly googled definition. And there’s really no way for me to guarantee I get the same definition. If I get another different one you’ll just do exactly the same, troll some more. Based on my understanding of macro, I remain that your P3 comment made no sense.
Really though, that is all there was to it. You get butthurt way too easily. Nobody cherry picked anything. I quoted the part I was confused about, I read your explanation, and I responded on why I disagree.
Perhaps if YOU re-read it without all the “Fearr is just against me” attitude, then you’d see there’s nothing personal… but then again, it’s now several useless replies about your ego again, when all that should have happened is you providing a simple definition.
I don’t have a “Fear is against me” attitude, I’ve seen you treat numerous other people in exactly the same way.
You keep asking me to make more of an effort to effectively explain things to you without making any effort at all to try to understood what I’ve already explained to you. I get that your elitist world view requires others to make all of the effort to get your approval but it’s a two way street buddy, gotta give a little to get a little.
Maybe you should use definitions for the actual game we are playing rather than definitions written for Brood War?
Lol, I am guessing you found where I found my definition. I don’t think macro changed as a definition between sc and sc2.
And it doesn’t change the discussion. P2’s reduce unit cost means at any given time, you’ll have more resources to spend than other prestiges. So the hardest to macro would remain with P2.
My views may seem elitist to you, but I can’t change that… just as I can’t change the fact that you seem hellbent on making this more than it is. All I said to you is “I disagree and here are the reasons”. You keep bringing up unrelated personal attacks. Stalking my posts don’t suit you. Remember to stop being a stalker every once in awhile… or is that your way of immersion with Protoss? Lol.
So again, I manage to spend 2 minutes googling to find your definition which is different enough to the definition provided for sc2 that it relates to previous discussion points regarding the differences between P2 and P3.
Go on, make the effort, find the sc2 version of the resource YOU chose to use. See what the differences are! Review my post based on this new information! It’s just basic research.
You’ve also had 2 people bring up a separate (but related) point and your response is “you don’t get it”.
Again, maybe it’s you that doesn’t get it?
Maybe it is me that doesn’t get it. I can concede to that for sure.
I did find sc2 macro, and it isn’t different. I’ve already said that though… so… what exactly is your point here?
From what I’m seeing it is basically either:
- I didn’t google your definition and therefore my understanding is invalid. OR
- I did google but clearly didn’t read your mastery of a post, therefore I simply didn’t understand.
Sounds to me it is impossible (to you at least) that P2 requires more macro than P3. So really, no matter what I try to discuss it’s moot.
And let’s say you’re right. So what? Here is a 
. Is it really necessary to be this inflammatory over a different opinion? Congrats, you’ve won the internet today. Hope that serves well in life. Lol.
Hey look I even tried to help you by pointing out that the differences in the 2 definitions related to the point that I made. Did you not see any difference? It’s clear as day to me. Copy paste it if you like and I’ll point it out for you.
I only win if I manage to help you understand something new and I definitely haven’t managed to do that yet.
To be honest, I never play(ed?) P2 as “Protoss Tychus”.
I usually go “single production structure type”:
- Warp Gates: for conservators providing defense and warp at location, adepts shooting everything, and some legionnaires to divert enemy fire, amassing big numbers is also easier.
- Robotic facility: mass colossi can intercept all attack waves thanks to being targetable by everything, some immortals for extra damage, Fenix (dragoon and arbiter) and Warbringer abilities for anti-air (also possible to make photon canons outposts and lure enemies in, depend on map and circumstances)
- Stargate: best mobility (regarding ignoring terrain), scouts can shoot everything, some gates should specialize on carriers to not cut the ability to build/rebuild scouts
I don’t play Brutal, but used with the right TPO, it work. I may be forced to make a Robotic Facility just for observers if I feel Fenix Arbiter and photon canons would not be enough as detection though.
With Fenix, I play P0, P1, P2.
P3 I really don’t understand the concept, I only see “heroes nerfed”. Not sure what niche situation would make me go “Great, I’m so glad I picked this prestige out of all of them”.
Unfortunately it is certainly the case that if you play P2 Fenix this way then you have missed the point of it.
The nerf to the units is so great that they are almost worthless in direct confrontations for anything other than mopping up stray units or clearing undefended buildings. Especially as the game goes on and enemy armour values increase. That isn’t to say that you can’t fight with these units in some circumstances (perhaps mainly to support your ally if there isn’t risk of your army crowding out your allies units).
All the power of this prestige comes in the “Protoss Tychus” style that is mentioned. However, its more like “Protoss Tychus when all the Outlaw abilities are set to autocast”. You just have to make 1 control group of Champions+Fenix (with 1-2 conservators following Warbringer) then A-move it at most enemies. The rest of the army can sit in your base or when you get better follow your army at a distance so the shells are close by.
P3 nerfs the attack range (so your Champions tank for your other units better) and their health (so they die faster) all to proc the boosted avenging protocol. The constant dying of your champions refunds their costs constantly providing an ongoing boost to their performance. If you can manage to build the right deathball for the situation, keep your army replenished as it constantly dies and micro your champions to take the brunt of the attacks it can be quite fun but is a lot of work.
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Well this was a doh moment for me. I never even thought of using this. I keep separate control groups for shells and champions so it’s a bit of a hassle to readd new shells to the control group. Thanks bud.
And I see a general consensus that P3 is just eh. Really disappointed if a commander has a prestige that is very very niche and/or nearly useless. It just takes the fun out of them. But then again there are strong prestiges I personally don’t like (please don’t hate me) lone wolf and Rough Rider. They just complicate things for me which I don’t like.
interesting so you never go 6 champion all the time?
No, since I don’t make the necessary production buildings to begin with. I’d rather go with Robot x2 or Stargate x2 to start than trying to get them all. Economizing left and right.
I mostly use P2. I think this build is incredibly strong and versatil against most mutations.
My first advice would be to pick the 60% HP bonus with this prestige. There are different reasons for that but to summarize your champions will be cheap with an amazing damage output thanks to the prestige and they will be incredibly resistent with the 60%.
You don’t need to keep your army near the champions except if you are really good and want to optimize. Just keep the champions in a control group and let them come back from the base if they die, it’s easy and usually enough.
The only exception are legionnaires, you can produce like one every 10 seconds and either send them to Fenix, Warbringer or to their death somewhere in the enemy camp to keep Kaldalis fully charged with AV protocol. Kaldalis with P2 is an absolute monster, with AV he will also have his speed doubled and reach the attack speed upper limit of the game, it’s like 700 DPS with a small AOE. Also Kaldalis tends to die more than the other champions, so he will have replacement shells closer.
The second beast is Warbringer, he’s so strong but more expensive, you need to micro him and protect him a lot more.
Mojo and Talis will be important to face air but they are not as strong.
Taldarin is fine.
Clolarion is near useless.
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Just want to add something. Avenging Protocol(AP) does amazing dps but they can’t exceeded attack animation cap. SC2 is a 12 year old game so the engine limits many things. Attack speed/animation mismatch is one of them. As you put maastery in champ’s atk speed, combined with AP, Kaldalis can ascend to godhood anyway.
This definitely is a thing but the more common misconception is that “Attack Speed Mastery in combination with Avenging Protocol make this happen always”.
The more accurate “generalization” is that Fenix P3 induces this limitation far more often whereas in P2 it rarely occurs. Not that this has any general-limitation on the average player (but definitely changes the maximum potential for those who optimizes).
IIRC, Kaldalis can gain max benefit in P3 around 10-15 AS mastery. P2 this is more around 20 or so, but unless you’re always throwing a bunch of Legionnaires with him to die you’ll likely not hit that very often even with 30.
The ones that really get hurt by it are Warbringer and Clolarian, with Clolarian’s anti air beam getting zero benefit at all.
Still, there’s benefits and drawbacks to choosing both, so it’s very much player choice for that mastery set.
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