So I’m done with my Nova issues. Now I’m replaying the Fenix prestiges.
To my surprise P1 was actually easier to use than P0 since your suits warp out automatically keeping them in tip top shape. The only down side I see is if your partner is super aggressive and doesn’t stop for anything then you are sometimes caught without a suit to use or your arbiter suit’s energy is depleted.
I think P2 is the most fun/unique since you technically get to play Protoss Tychus. Though I do feel that it’s a bit of a hassle to keep your replacement units close by. I think it would’ve been great if only the damage was nerfed even if it was a 75% reduction or maybe if a champion dies it just consumes a shell to heal back to full (like Alarak) so it won’t be so taxing to macro.
Now P3 I just don’t get. It causes you to be like P3 Mengsk but worse. I get it when used on Kaldalis or Talis, maybe even Tal’darin and Mojo. But it makes Warbringer and Clolarion worse even with the refunds. Not to mention the times where they choose to come back in a shell unit that’s in the middle of the deathball and get stuck.
If you have some tips on how to make the most out of these prestiges let me know. I’d love to try them out.
P1 is played pretty much like P0. See what the enemy comp is, and build the right units to counter it with champion support. In my opinion, it’s easier to build up your death ball in P1 since Fenix can clear a decent amount of attack waves solo, allowing you to preserve your army for pushing objectives. Conservators are more important, since you won’t have a Zealot Fenix constantly tanking for your army. P.S. I would recommend having a few observers so you can give your arbiter suit a chance to recover.
Here’s a lovely tip for P2; have your champions on their own control group (I usually have them as Ctrl-1). Whenever you lose a champion, the new shell will automatically be put back into that control group. This means you can F2 move your army close to the action, then just constantly send your champion control group in.
P3 is…P3. If you’re good with your micro and keeping your champions on the front lines while attacking with your army, you can cause serious damage. Nothing like cheap heroes getting angrier and angrier while the rest of your army keeps pounding away. I will admit however, P3 is probably my least favorite prestige for him.
Pretty much this. P2 is NOT an F2A prestige, and keeping your other units nearby isn’t that hard at all. The worst of it is reinforcing your Robo/Stargate units.
P1 is pretty much “delet this”: The Prestige. My only gripe with it is that Arbiter Suit has to be CONSTANTLY deployed and doesn’t stay in control groups. So you’ll have to seriously consider using Observers with your army.
P3… Well it’s mostly like P2, except F2A-like. Hotkey your champions like with P2 so you can pull them toward the front more often.
P1 is so fun but not “mutation resistant” so I don’t play it in B+ (which is all I play). It’s also punishing if you manage to somehow lose a suit (should only be a risk on B+).
P2 I get frustrated by as anytime I had it set as my prestige and got Fenix as my random commander it seemed I’d get some environmental mutation that would require leaving the army at home which loses a lot of the power.
P3 is my go-to prestige. Hardest macro out of all the fenix prestiges (if not all of coop) and significant micro required as well to stay ontop of Champion management. I like it because I don’t feel hamstrung into building all 6 champions. Conservators are a must. I like including and using Disruptors against appropriate ground comps, they do good work if you have time to use their ability.
@Sprite good tip about keeping champions on a separate control group.
I do the same expansion styles between P0 and P2. Either Kaldalis or Taldarin, depending upon the map.
Yes. I actually split my Champion Mastery Points so that I get 20% more HP and 20% more Attack Speed. 6 Champion is the way to go with it. I personally like just getting all 6 Champions out ASAP then cram out their required supplies. It’s very easy with half cost units.
1: No because TDW doesn’t kick into until shells are on the field and expanding with a single champion (typically Khal or Tal) is very quick already. Perhaps as P2 you might be inclined to more frequently go with a Gateway opening because of the relative power boost to Khal.
2: P2 army is designed to stay OUT of combat. All Fighting should be done by champions. The gimp army can be used for clearing left over buildings or picking off stray units.
Which part?
Hardest macro out of Fenix prestiges because the most production structures will be required if efforts are made to keep Avenging Protocol stacked to replenish forces. Also compared to P2 there is more variation in macro as you adjust depending on map/enemy composition so more decision making required.
Hardest Macro in coop? Don’t know. I was comparing this in my mind to Raynor P0 and in terms of mechanics it seems similar - mass unit production, discounts vs extra income. The difference to me is the variation in unit production. More opportunity with Raynor P0 (and Fenix P2) to learn a specific build order with minimal variation in composition.
Maybe to me Raynor P2 would take the cake as the hardest commander in coop to play well because of the massive demand on macro, decision making and micro with the possibility for dividends to be paid (unlike P0 in my opinion which struggles against many mutators).
Without trying to offend you I also think this changes between Brutal and Brutal+ as so often I find myself desperately trying to micro early units around environmental mutators or staying ontop of others which significantly impacts getting macro up at home.
Well… when you use things like “without offending you”, it just seems you’re trying to start . Here’s the direct quote definition from Liquipedia re: “macro”:
Macro is your ability to produce units, and keep all of your production buildings busy. Generally, the player with the better macro will have the larger army. The other element of macro is your ability to expand at the appropriate times to keep your production of units flowing. A good macro player is able to keep increasing his or her production capability while having the resources to support it.
P3 offers exactly 0 changes to macro, whereas P2 actually reduces the cost of units. As such, it is actually P2 that requires more production structures over P3. The saved income from unit costs ==> more bank to make more production ==> to make more units at one time ==> bigger army at any given time until max cap ==> MORE macro skill required. This is why I asked you to elaborate because it made no sense.
As for the hardest macro in coop as a whole, I’d still have to give it to P0 Raynor (certainly NOT P2). If you feel P0 struggles then I’d hazard a guess you haven’t seen LilArrin’s gameplays. The difference in total style variation of any CO/prestige has exactly 0 impact on macro as a skill.
I think you put your money in Brutal+ far too often and far too much. Mutations are usually the games where ‘far too many limitations are placed on any CO/prestige’. It is a literal direct result of mutator combinations. As such, evaluating many things via Brutal+ is often not used. That said, how robust a particular CO/prestige can be is often done against mutators because that same variance created by mutators make good candidate for ROBUSTNESS as a measure.
Didn’t crunch the numbers, but getting out Kadalis/champion Zealot earlier is better than getting a Kadalis later on with stacks. The Champions are already able to bypass the constraint of half damage. Especially important if you’re getting rushed. Kadalis vs. Zerglings can hold his own
Try to max out the the stacks for TDW for sure. A Kadalis, Talis (champ Adept), Taldarin (champ Immortal), with half stacks were able to take down the bonus objectives for Temple of the Past very swiftly along with their Void Thrashers, so they’re worth keeping up to ensure you’re exceeding 10 or more supply or close to it.
P1… Arbiter suit has 0 cd, so you can bring it on anytime! (save for if the other 2 suits are currently in play). This pretty much means “on-the-spot” detection, and on the spot mass recall as well (for mobility!).
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P2… I use a control group for all champions. As mentioned, new ones will automatically get assigned to that control group.
Put the Purifier Enclave on a control group, as the right hand side shows how many of each shells there are on the field. 7 Zealots, 10 Adepts, 5 Immortals, 3 to 4 Colossi, 7 Scouts, and 3 to 4 Carriers are what you need to max out TDW. If you’re somewhat below, or at half that supply, don’t fret, as they’re still getting a lovely boost
On shorter missions, you can forgo Colarian(sp… Carrier) and Mojo (champ Scout). I hear their TDW isn’t as great a value. The Zealot one is just bonkers and always worth having extra shells nearby.
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Haven’t revisited P3 yet. Will come back when I have.
Actually P3 does change mid to late game macro as you are losing units faster and have additional income (from the hero death refund) so you must have more production facilities in the mid to late game.
This is correct. I end up dropping 2 additional Probes from my normal amount for a secondary Conservator (since the damn Hybrids LOVE lifting them and popping them.) 20 Supply is needed to max TDW.
In addition to the other points that I made that Fear ignored.
Fear, perhaps go back to my post, reread it? Then google: macro liquidpedia and read that.
Then play a map with “going nuclear” mutator for example as P2 and P3.
See if you can at least try to properly respond to a person’s argument rather than going for this repeated argument that because you only play Brutal that Brutal is all that matters?
No, I just don’t want to waste breath discussing basic concepts. You keep trying to start .
I asked you to clarify and elaborate why you think P3 was hardest to macro, when P2 clearly was more so. When your response was as half-witted as usual, I tried to provide an explanation.
And as usual, you move goal post and start some more inflammatory things. So I am sure this isn’t the end of it.
Just remember while I don’t agree with many of your perspectives, I don’t have an obligation to answer to your every point with some counter-point. Nobody’s trying to win a debate here. It’s a discussion forum, and I discussed why I don’t agree with your points once. Stop your constant harassment and leave the grudge at home. Good day.
. Here’s the direct quote definition from Liquipedia re: “macro”:
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