Since there’s a Nova’s I don’t think why not a Fenix one.
My personal, biased, and totally subjective tier list is
P0 = P1 >= P2 > P3
P0 is Fenix most consistent prestige imo. Has no weak points (maybe mobility if there’s poor use of the Arb suit) but overall he is strong in all the phases of the game - most notably mid game with the 6 champs build. He doesn’t excel at anything really - wich is a major weakness in mutations and I wanted that to change with the prestiges, but oh well.
P1 is almost the same as P0 but with a stronger, but less reliable Fenix. All things considered, he can handle almost anything alone, but the arbiter recall is a very needed ability in some maps, so it must be handled even more carefully than in P0. Plus, you need to micro Fenix more, since mismanaging him is very punishing.
P2 changes a bit the playstyle, relying more in your champions for the majority of the game instead of the lategame army. Kaldalis wrecks anything in the ground with the adequate number of shells, but I find this prestige suffer the most against air comps. You get units with the cost, vitals and damage of a zerg unit, but retaining the protoss supply.
P3 tries to take advantage of the avenging protocol buff, but most of the time the buff is lost due to the random shell picking and its constant poor placement. While the idea behind it is cool, the gameplay is overly complicated and mostly not worth it.
So there’s that. Feel free to criticize and comment!
Fenix is the first commander that I bought and the only commander that I have access to that I haven’t unlocked a single prestige for, just don’t see the point.
Worth noting that Fenix P1 doesn’t have a cooldown for the Arbiter suit. It’ll still time out like the other two, but it can be called down instantly again afterwards.
Easily the least damaging suit, but it does still benefit from the double damage for its auto attack. Some 100 dps is quite handy early game, provided you get his damage upgrade from the forge at a quickish pace (and use the attack speed mastery, which is the better choice for P1 anyway)
P2 does have weakness (more so in AA) but the power is honestly too overwhelming. The sweep speed compared to other prestiges of Fenix is far greater. If I had to pinpoint the biggest weakness of P2 is its difficulty in keeping up with macro. Balancing your resources, build order, and upkeep on 20 supply of each of the champions is harder than it looks… especially in a timely min/max mannor. I continue to have trouble and practising. Despite this issue (for me), Kaldalis + Talis basically wins you every game.
P1’s burst is all about control and well timed usage on Fenix while everything else functions exactly the same as P0. The sustained damage from P0’s Fenix isn’t as good as P1 when this is optimized. That said, P1 has a larger punishment as a result of this. Where Fenix now can wreak havoc on areas previously couldn’t, when over-spammed, the player can be left without anything. So map experience is much more needed here.
P3 functions exactly the same as P0 in every way but just better slightly. This is due to drawback/disadvantage of P3 isn’t really of note at all to Fenix in general. Even without P3’s alterations, the player would want Champions to tank and die to continuously proc and stack AP. So it’s just an upgrade.
When I played P1 I thought it had a longer cooldown, but it seems I was mistaken. So, P1 can pull almost the same as P0 with increased strenght.
I have to disagree. Don’t get me wrong, P2 Kaldalis is incredibly strong against any ground comp, but Talis/Mojo alone can’t handle air comps very well - even more in lategame with the huge waves, whereas P0 has no problem handling these. It’s a bit unreliable at times, that’s why I value more consistensy rather than speciality.
No, it doesn’t function exactly. Early/mid game is considerably weaker against bases and waves, where it should give room for you to macro up and get your army ready, making Fenix powercurve slower. So no, it’s not an “upgrade”.
My guess is that you’re not pushing hard/fast enough. In most maps, 2 champions (doesn’t have to be Talis, Kaldalis + any other) will have wiped the map. Where you can fall short against air enemies, you can use Fenix more appropriately.
And btw, Warbringer is often overlooked by people for AA. Mojo/Talis will definitely die more often against air but that’s why it’s essential for P2 to have replacements very close by but not engaging.
There is literally no difference between the champions except you’re more buffed in P3. Your resource loss is minimal if they die (and that’s a big if, the inherent P3 issue currently is that they don’t die enough and get blocked often). So I’m not sure how you’re finding P0 stronger at all. It should be the other way around.
Early game in P3 is carried in part by Fenix. There is no difference like at all, so how are you losing the champions more at all, except by losing your army before they get to the front again. Also, mastery in HP/SP should be your choice in P3. And it functions perfectly fine to make up for “lack of vitality”.
Yea, I’m gonna have to say P2 is probably his most powerful, with P1 coming second.
Kaldalis plus whatever heroes you want is great. I usually use chrono to rush him out and get his blades research. While doing that build a few more zealots and start pushing the closest enemy camp with him. There’s a chance he’ll die… But oh well, he’ll have cleared most of that enemy camp. Add in Talis and whatever else you want, but keep pushing. As long as you’re only using your champions to fight, you can easily sustain on one base. As for air, it’s a bit harder, but considering Fenix can clear most waves solo in his dragoon, it’s not too bad.
As for P1… It’s good. Considering every enemy wave can be destroyed with Fenix, it means your army can snow ball even faster than P0. Throw in the fact that they took away one major weakness in the arbiter suit being timed as well, and you’ve got a decent, mobile army that just gets stronger and stronger and doesn’t have to worry about engaging enemy waves head on.
As a rule of thumb, the faster you can kill the enemy, the less upgrades they have and the weaker they are.
The raw power of Kaldalis+ any other champ early is strong, but you lose the lategame power by nerfing his army. True, there are ways to change your playstyle to play around air comps, but is still a weakness that forces to make sometimes not so efficient choices. Fenix is already strong in all phases, there’s no point in giving him two weakness (air comps and lategame) for an increase of ground dps which, while useful, it’s not like he can’t handle ground comps already.
How can be P3 heroes “buffed” when they are literally nerfed (compared to P0), trading that for a temporal buff they are NOT receiving early (because or you push too much and die without any remaining units or you simply dont die) and a refund cost they dont need anyways, because of Fenix cheap early/mid game? They are nerfed and that’s a fact.
I not saying the other prestiges are weak or anything like that (maybe P3 to some extent due to the unreliable advantage) but they are still reliant on certain factors (enemy comp, map lenght, waves directions, etc.) that compared to P0, are less consistent. RickRumble’s post made me realize that P1 weakness was not as strong as I thought, so I think both P0 and P1 are very well balanced and serves different gamplays. But my issue with P2 (weaker army for a strong ground dps) and P3 (weaker heroes for a buff you dont always get) they need some factors to align to surpass P0/P1.
As a final thought, I think P2 could have a consistent edge with the mutator “heroes of the storm” and outdamage the heroes. So there’s that.
Late game is a time frame and not your army’s maximal strength. Having 1million DPS is definitely greater than 1000DPS, but if you finished the map in 15min cuz early access of said 1000DPS, then reaching 1million is worthless by 25min. And that’s the P2 thing. Where it falls short is actually in mutations of attrition.
P3 AP is doubled in power so each champion is just stronger. The -2range isn’t a nerf but a buff. The only nerf is vitality change but is equalized by mastery. In P0, if you chose HP/SP mastery over Atk Spd mastery then you’ve done it non-optimally. So in every aspect it’s not really a nerf.
Also not to mention that P2 makes repeatedly throwing champions into the meatgrinder to wear the enemy down actually affordable. So what if your “lategame strength” is weaker because of your army not being as strong? It doesn’t matter because you can just keep doing what you’ve always done and stomp the enemy with champs regardless. You can easily afford doing so.
But you cannot finish all maps in 15 minutes, that’s why I said P2 to shine needs:
short map
ground comp
When one of these criteria are not met, P2 is not strictly better than P0/P1. When you meet these criteria, P2 is stronger than P0/P1. See what I mean?
Champions in P3 get the buff ONLY if you lose units or lose the champs themselves, and the buff is temporary, not suited for continous fights like in certain maps. On the other hand, they get a permanent nerf (while its the intended purpose of the prestige to trigger multiple stacks) in the early game, where 6 champs should hold Fenix. It’s not an upgrade no matter how you want to see it, because of a permanent nerf and inconsistent buff.
Yes but you aren’t seeing the point… that is for any useful purposes even long maps such as TotP, MO, VL, etc. are cleaned by then. As hard and massive as TotP waves can be during late game, Kaldalis plus any other champion can destroy them. Of course, as long as you’re supplying the shells (as is basic).
So no, I don’t share your perspective there at all. Feels like I’ve explained it 3 times now. It’s not about timed maps run longer than 15min, it’s about the fact regardless how long you finish a mission, by 15min you’d wiped what’s relevant. That’s why P2 is strong… that’s the reason.
Whereas your point here is what? In P0 the champions are permanently buffed by AP magically? Please understand that in any prestige, AP is proc’d only when Champion dies. Or more accurately, when champion transfers.
So if you lose champions at the same rate cuz your skills didn’t change simply cuz you changed prestige. And one of them (P3) is simply stronger then P3 is just stronger, k? Lol.
You keep talking about a nerf… what is nerf’d?
Legionnaire 100/200
Kaldalis 200/400
Mastery HP/SP non-vitality P3 Kaldalis is 100/200 x 1.6 (60% mastery) = 160/320
so your nerf is 40/80 difference to trade in for a damage buff. That buff has higher utility than the small bulk loss. Lest we forget you get 75% of that resource back on things like carrier, colossus, etc.
Also, how badly is the player controlling champions here that 500 total bulk isn’t enough?!?
You can do the same calculations across for all champions and the loss is proportionally similar… ie. insignificant.
I mean I’m at a loss here. You don’t have to like the prestige but facts are facts… as Fenix, if you’re rolling out with just champions during early game, then your champions aren’t any weaker cuz what scenario would you lose 2champions + Fenix??? During mid-late game, when are you rolling out without your army or replacements? So as you engage, both possible scenarios are stronger.
I can see a case of mutators possibly favouring P0 but honestly that’s more tid for tad. Coop is a game where the faster you finish the easier it is (same for mutations). That favours DPS and not bulk… where bulk matters is in lower bulk units like Zerglings and Marines (hence why P1 Raynor bio is hard to die with just 100+ HP on the Marines). Here, your bulk difference is between 500 vs 600… that’s far beyond what matters.
Another way to look at it is this:
in P0, for 100% cost you get 100% bulk.
in P3, for 25% cost you get 5/6th of 100% bulk and more DPS.
I mean I do believe it’s the strongest because it factually is the strongest. I can understand if you feel somehow the moment you meet air comp P2 is doomed… that’s just not true. However, if that’s your experience then that’s your experience… I’m just telling you somewhere along the line, you missed something cuz P2 handles like a beast.
Did you know that P2 wipes OE faster than other prestiges? Even though OE full clear takes about 18 minutes and gets limited by max supply by that time?
I don’t even see the point of using P0 once prestiges are unlocked. P1 has exact same army and a much better Fenix with instant teleportation everywhere, P2 is better on maps where you don’t need to split, and P3 is P0 with better Avenging Protocol and way more of resources to spend.
It was already mentioned that there’s almost no difference in stats. Everything has same stats and costs, Avenging Protocol duration is the same, and the only difference is that your champions have shorter range to use Avenging Protocol more. That feels more like a buff than a nerf.
Then your fist champion dies and you get 75% of its cost back, which means you’re already in a better financial situation than you would be on P0 in that exact moment.
You can play exactly like P0 and still be in a better spot, because your lategame army is exactly the same, except you will have more resources because of champion deaths. Unless you really insist on playing with the champion health mastery.
But if you play like P3 actually should be played… let me just say that sometimes even 16 Gateways, 4 Robo and 4 Stargate is not enough to spend all that resources you will be floating from sending your champions to their death.
I always disliked how AP works since it promotes a Mengsk’ish playstyle while Prottoss in general feel more Nova’ish as in “never lose any unit ever”. And using the 35% damage reduction shield/armour upgrades have bad synergy at times.
I can’t comment on P3 since I have yet to unlock it, but based on the numbers it feels stronger then P0, as long the map is hard enough to actually lose units…