Im gonna post this in hopes of changing something but i honestly doubt it will.
The current state of the game is more frustrating than fun, i dont care about balance, that is another topic, what i care about is having a fun sc2 matches when i play. I recently came back to the game and i am quickly being reminded why i left.
The game is a constant cheese and all in fest, you cant have a solid macro game without being harrassed a million times per game, not only cant you play without being harrased you CANT PLAY WITHOUT HARRASING.
In PvZ ur behind if u dont harras and in TvP i belive it is the same, constantly having to play faster instead of playing SMARTER doesnt make for fun games, having to scout 10 times before 4 minutos into the game does not make a game fun, losing to invisible units because u lapsed a bit in attention is not fun, losing to a ling flood because your zealot is 1 pixel of center is not fun, and so on and so on, i am sure you know what i am talking about.
Please, slow down the game a bit, make it less about APM’s and more about who outsmarted who, tone down the all ins with cirurgical nerfs to ALL RACES.
Open up more ways of playing, zerg seems to be in a great state in this regard, they at least look like that they can make many army compositions work, do the same for terran and toss.
Just my 2 cents.
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I agree, some things need a restyle, it’s still a good game imho, otherwise i wouldn’t play it.
I don’t like in particular how late protoss look like, i think they need more spellcasting and less brute force to represent properly their race concept.
The 1 pixel flood is annoying like hell, last game i had i stopped a zergling flood with a probe, typed “hero probe” in chat, zerg player answered “sry, i wasnt looking”. Some players just move click in your base and if they’re lucky they in a game.
It’s not about balance, it’s design.
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PvT is hard favor Protoss like said Parting during an interview.
Improve your macro instead of whining thx.
So, a few notes from a Diamond player:
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If you’re willing to play it safe and not get super greedy or aggressive, you can pretty easily hold any kind of weird allin or cheese even without scouting every 2 seconds.
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Harass is not a cheese. It is an integral part of a macro game and allows you to trade out units for damage and scouting information, it is a method of attacking and doing damage without having to commit your whole army. Complaining about being harassed is just senseless. Regarding PvZ specifically, yeah, I can see the frustration of having to harass excessively just to be competitive, and it has been a complaint of protoss players for some time now. The zealot pixel thing I don’t know where you’re coming from, I don’t main P but I’ve never had a problem sticking the zealot in the wall properly when I do play PvZ, maybe your gap was too big?
Edit: in response to the balance comments being made (high D, have been in low M as well):
TvZ 100% balanced
TvP not hard favoring anyone, maybe a slight edge protoss but not too much, at least
PvZ yeah zerg has an edge here, but not an insurmountable one
I am not saying its not balanced, this thread is not about balance, it is about the direction it took a few years ago design wise, you are absolutely missing the point.
My complain is what the game promotes and forces you to do, belive it or not sc2 was not always so harass intensive, sure it had harras and apms and uneven stages of the game, but it was never designed to be so, those things happened in a more organic way.
In LoTV u got a bunch of units that do nothing but make the races lose identity and promote harras, zerg got siege units (lurkers and ravagers) which are the oposite of the races theme, toss got early harass units which are useless later on and a gimmick coin flip (we didnt need more harras and all ins, we had enough of that, we had 4gate for a whole expansion ffs), and terran (the luckiest out of the bunch) actualy got a decent unit for mech which was needed and 1 more harras unit (that also promotes all ins).
The complain is not about being harrased, the complain is that the game is designed for you to be harrased and it never stops, its bad design that is made for viewrship only, because having 2 players play passive is not a good show.
I am diamond like you, i know all that bro, balance is honestly decent, contrary to what the forums make you belive, sc2 was never that far out of balance save for a few instances over the years, the design just went in a terrible direction.
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The balance comment was more directed towards Thyphoon and preemptively against anyone else who would post, I understood what you were saying.
You’re right that the constant action makes the game more exciting to watch, but I think it makes it more fun to play as well. The weird all-ins can be annoying, but as I said you can defend them if you’re willing to play it safe.
I’d much rather play a macro game defending harass and harassing then turtling and building up.
OP makes some excellent points. Harass is here to stay but nothing stops Blizzard to alter the design and give all 3 races more defender’s advantage to tone down the harass imperative (make more costly to harass).
I’m afraid the design pushes the game in the opposite direction and this is not a good thing.
Excellent post.
Well, the alternative is turtle play. Pick a poison.
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It does not have to be THIS or THAT. BW is a case in point.
“I can’t do no rush 10 minutes every game”
Harass isn’t cheese
Pressure isn’t Cheese.
That’s how you play RTS.
If all you want is strategy and no mechanical requirement there is a genre for you: Turn Based Strategy
What a load of crap. In formal logic it is called “reductio ab absurdum”…
This poster reminds me of the stupid americans that call universal healthcare a …communist devilry.
No it’s just reality. Because of the “real time” part of Real Time Strategy mechanics will always be important; there is literally no way to avoid that outside of making it turned based. That’s true even in BW, which many people who have no idea what they’re talking about tout as being more strategic and less about worker harass. There’s a reason in PvT sending a slow zealot to your opponent’s base early is an opener: You have the opportunity to harass workers and demand mechanical focus from your opponent. Mutas harass workers. Reaver drops harass workers. Vulture runby with mines. AoE2? Tower rushing is a common cheese and worker harass is much more of an option due to the de-centralization of resources.
Get over it. If strategy without mechanical skill is what you want: Play Turn Based. Otherwise, gitgud.
I understand all that and agree that harass was is and will be part of any kind of a game of such nature. The issue is the proportion that harass should have in the game. Let’s say that instead of 60% of one’s attention in doing/countering harass goes to 40%.
There are ways to achieve that without necessarily ending in turtle-play.
Mechanical skills are still there, just doing other things.
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The problem is SC2 is a very fast-paced RTS so IT IS THIS or THAT. Otherwise, they will have to remake the entire SC2 starting from the unit cap in order to slow down the game without it being either THIS or THAT.
I was thinking something less ambitious: make harass more dangerous for the harasser and/or give to harasser less tangible gains from harassment.
Case in point: nerff of FB decreased the risk of terran harassment (among other 1000 negative other consequences in PvZ).
No doubt about thae fact that in a mirror between equally skilled players the one with the superior mechanics will win (and should win).
there was a competitive match in Sc2 where the game speed was accidentally slowed down. the toss could set a perfect ff with Sentry.
@Sonicphi I don’t like your league not. but that always has to be harassed is not true or depends on the league.
I am not advocating for NO harras im advocating for LESS harass.
Which was a thing in the last expansion in case every one forgot, every race had less harass tools, toss didnt have the adept, terran didn’t have the liberator.
I think that harras should be a viable strategy in a game like starcraft, outright losing to harras should not.
Heres an idea, double all the workers HP, sundenly harass doesnt do as much dmg and workers become more efficient at defending all ins. (i dont particularly care about this idea im just brainstorming)
If i remeber correctly even pros have come out and said the game was too fast, the game is just not as fun as it used to be.