Featuring: Rem's Mod

Map Showcase
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Rem’s Mod (Actual Mod’s Name)

An extension mod, which can be combined to any melee maps. The first player may select among many options in the lobby, such as fog of war, resources, supplies, game mods and more. The main feature, the “Super Tech Trees” is a my featured creation in which you get to choose powerful upgrades. Each selection will increase the global price of all upgrades. Periodically, the cost of the next upgrade will be decreased.

Gameplay option:

  • What if your units could level up upon killing enemy units? What if you had the chance to pick up items for enhancing your units? Discover such features in the gameplay option.

Cosmic Events:
Wanna bring big bad weather to your map? It will, but you never know where or when.

Melee Maps:

  1. It is somewhat conceived for old school players who enjoy melee maps, but with additional features. I’ve put a lot into it.
  2. It is absolutely not an arcade mod. Although they are popular, I do not like creating those types of contents.
  3. It is made with content that is unlike anything from Campaign, Mutators or Coop. The content I created is unique. Some features may have been taken back, I can’t deny it, but I tried as much as possible to avoid them.

Addictive Gaming:

  1. Gambling your every game; Each game has to be different in choices, in luck, in outcome. I may not always succeed at creating such circumstances, but I’m trying as hard as I can!
  2. The heart of my mod is the “Super Tech Trees” feature. I left it as an option to be turned off/on in case you would like the rest of my mod, except it.
  3. This mod is essentially fun if you are to play lonely against computers.

This mod is still evolving:

  • While this mod is considered as “Finished”, it is not entirely true in regard of what I’m up to. Reviewers asked me for more and I shall deliver.

Facts:

  1. I am a noob a who knows little about sc2 pvp (or barely). My mod is probably unbalanced, unfair, fun, OP, UP. I’ll balance whatever I can based on your reviews, but be advised, if it gets too popular and I get an astonishing amount of reviews, I might become selective on suggestions :wink:.
  2. I’ve been suggested to make factions, tribes, etc. As I find this concept interesting, the skins I used in my mod didn’t have that purpose. They were used to create uniquely different units with different abilities, related to their unique animations. Since my mod offers much converging opportunities between technologies, I did not want to conflict them and also, it felt too boring to just make different factions and clans based on very small disctinctives stats.
  3. I do not get into making additional races. I know some modders made it, and I might just leave that expertise to them, as they have far greater projects than I do for that concern. I also believe that there is much to improve, give or create with the existing races, which Blizzard really made well for start.
  4. I know people complain a lot of balancing on general forums, but I’m not here to substitute whatever is to be modified about the default game units. Don’t fret, I’ve still managed to add interesting counters to the most hated combos such as carrier armies!
  5. I am alone on this project. Please understand that in accordance with my personal life, my real life job (which is not this project), my child and everything, I can’t promise rapid feedbacks, updates, content and conception. Things are simply going faster lately because I deceided to make it public.
  6. I know that some modders have amazing UI / Menu boards / Buttons for their mods. To the best of my knowledge, I hope mine still satisfy your gameplay, as I might just not be able to compete with their skills. However, as for everything that I know today, I learn everyday and hope to reach out for more.

About me:
This is one of the first projects on which I’ve been working on for the past years. I started using the editor in 2017, knowing nothing and gradually learning until I was able to conduct this great achivement. When this mod was released publicly, reviews were mostly positive, which boosted my motivation to do more. I do believe that people playing this game hope for someone in charge to keep them entertained, updated and have this game alive for as long as the fun takes on, which is what I aspire to be.

For those who don’t know me, I am Wonder_Rem, member of the sc2 mapster community, a data veteran. I am the largest sc2mapster wiki contributor, who gave it most of its actual data content. I teach and train people with the data editor. However, it comes with no surprises that I’m less potent with UI/Triggers, as I’ve spent most of my years mastering data.

Currently (last updated september 4 2023):

  • I will move the update and comments to the mod’s review section, I get way more interaction there. If you guys want to write here, still, I’ll reply without any trouble.
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I’m going to give you a piece of advice. When writing an essay, start off with a headline. What does the mod actually do??

I may try it later, if I can remember the name; but at this point I have NO reason to because I have ZERO information. Except that there is a new mod for melee that supposedly does something with techtrees I’m guessing?

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Acknowledged, I fixed my intro.

1 Like
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Very cool. Love the idea.

I’d suggest removing the ‘upgrades’ icon and spreading your custom upgrades into the tech buildings so it’s not so much to absorb at once. Possibly create a custom tech building that can house some of that really cool later tech/custom tech that introduces your custom units.

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The first months that I created this mod, it was as such. Then after, I prefered the idea of having constant access to the menu. That being said, I totally value your suggestion and I can add it to my questions for reviewers (on the mod’s patch notes). I’ll let you know in due time, thank you for your reply!

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Hi, good to be outside the review page.
I have, well, a bit of a laundry list of suggestions, ranging from mechanics ideas to game design theory, plus some bug reporting. So, in no particular order:

Not the biggest within the mod, but one of the greatest annoyances I’ve found: randomness. There are good uses for it, and bad ones. Here’s a video on the topic if you’re interested: The Two Types of Random in Game Design - YouTube
As pertains to your mod, an example of random done well is the Ghost’s dirty nuke causing randomized debuffs to biological units, or the Zerg drop pods delivering a randomized army; one is a trouble you hand your enemy to deal with, while the other hands you a randomized tool for you to figure out how to use. Both of these are good.
A neutral one is the Ghost’s critical hit chance. It’s… ill-fitting with Starcraft’s design intent, where randomness has no place in the core game… but it’s both a small thing, and is not something you might get let down relying on, partly because it’s not something you might rely on. It’s just a bonus, and that’s fine.
The bad one I’ve run into is the Oracle’s Propheties Darkness. (Side note, is that misspelled? I can’t quite understand what that’s trying to say.) Using Revelation to cloak targets is great (I think for balance it should cost more energy, but I digress)… but the bonus chance of permanent cloaking is not well done. If you’re proactively using it to make an attack or retreat more effective, then the lucky ones who stay cloaked are… not exactly something you’d be caring about? And if instead you’re using it logistically to hide a base or to prepare a stealth attack force… then it’s painful, having to hope that you’re lucky enough to get what you wanted cloaked. There have been times where I’ve tried for some fifty or so casts and one target stubbornly remained visible, and that kind of bad luck just feels really bad to play with.
So… my suggestions for revising that one would be either to have the Propheties Darkness cause an escalating buff that increases the chance of cloaking the target each time they’re affected (but I imagine that would be weird to code and resource-intensive), or decoupling the permanent cloak from the ability; You’ve mentioned trying to encourage varied gameplay, so perhaps if you made a separate upgrade that was mutually exclusive with Propheties Darkness, and gave the Oracle an ability to install a Cloaking Module to permanently cloak a target. 100 minerals, 50 gas, 150 energy, 5 second channel cast that stuns the target, 30 second cooldown, and the same visual effect as the sentry ward build laser.

Whew. Pardon the word wall.

Next is some… inconsistencies in how you seem to conceptualize design balance. I’ve seen a couple things that cause status effects, and mention they can be cleared by cleansing effects… of which I’ve seen only two, Oracle’s Gates of Creation and Phoenix’ improved graviton beam, both of which are Protoss. Additionally, they only cleanse status on friendly units, which means you cannot use them to break mind control, perhaps the single most important status to break. I don’t have specific suggestions, but each race should have a simple way (not necessarily easy, but simple) to cleanse status effects, including on enemies.

How you handle the cloakability of Protoss is also inconsistent. You have Oracles unable to cloak the Mothership (fair) or each other (… why?) but have Conduit Prisms able to hide themselves (borderline OP against computers, but I like it, especially since it’s not at all OP vs players) and also Oracles. You made it so the Nexus can project a cloak field… but can be cloaked by such a field, so spamming Nexuses lets you cloak your whole base without issue. Like… if Prisms hide themselves, why are Oracles exempted from each other? (From self makes sense, but not another Oracle). Why leave them out of the Nexus cloak field but not the Prism’s? I’m probably going on too much on this one, but the takeaway is that since there are so many other ways for sustained mutual cloaking, why put so much trouble to keep the Oracle out of it, when it’s very far from overpowered? Likewise their immunity to Gates of Creation - unable to affect self, that makes sense, but why not repair each other? Anyway, moving on before I make a total fool of myself.

Another is your treatment of heroes, and certain abilities that permanently debilitate or oneshot things. I once had a LV50 Mothership get stolen by a newly made Terra that I didn’t know was in the enemy army… and with how the Terra’s steal works, it counted as still mine so I couldn’t replace it until I destroyed… a LV50 Mothership. … So I oneshotted it with a Phoenix graviton slam. Although these situations can be funny from the outside, they’re intensely unpleasant from inside. Abilities that can permanently debilitate (dirty nuke’s Incapacitation, any mind control) or oneshot (graviton slam, Abomination’s devour) simply should not be able to affect heroes. Damage, yes, slows or pulls or temporary stuns, yes, but not things that leave it worthless in your hands. That’s not fun.

It’s funny to use a Phoenix to oneshot a Gorgon. It feels bad to have your Gorgon oneshotted by a Phoenix that raced up when your attention was elsewhere without so much as an under attack notification.

[giant sigh]

So. On to lighter topics.

I like your idea of encouraging diversity by having mutually exclusive options. Some of those executions are very good - the Widow Mine, Marine, and Marauder variants come to mind, and the Protoss factions. Others… not so much. The idea of limited charges to select between options is actually neat, but it only works when the options are relatively equal. Some of the choices are extremely limited compared to others; the Zerg speed boost, for example, strikes me as just never worth comparing to the healing, drop pods, Ghastly Siphon, larva count boost, or infected quills. Similarly the Terran ACV; why should I waste that point slightly buffing something that I ought to be keeping the heck off the front lines, when I can instead get things that will help me keep it safe anyway?

So… I would recommend having a broader selection of mutually exclusive upgrade sets. For example, a Protoss economic choice between Pylon Warp (pylons warp in instantly like the spear of adun, and each pylon has a long-cooldown ability to teleport anywhere you have vision) or Warp Anchor Projection (increase Probe build range to 10). Several of the upgrades you have on the limited points list would make decent mutual exclusion pairs, which would narrow the point-buy pool a bit so their options could feel more equal.

Another thing I’d recommend is having a broader selection of economic upgrades. Terran team-build, Protoss orbital Assimilators, Zerg crawler creep independence. Worker upgrades: SCV cliff-jumping, Probe Blink, Drone burrow-move. Structure upgrades: Terran fire supression, Zerg structure symbiotes, Protoss shield battery bulwark.

Honestly your brilliance with all of these upgrade ideas is endlessly praiseworthy, there’s just a few things that need reworking.

And finally, some bug-type things.

I don’t know if it’s intentional, but when STT is enabled, every 4 minutes the upgrade price accumulation drops… but this does not happen when it’s STT-no-AI mode, where the price will just accumulate and stay there. If the discount is intentional, then it shouldn’t be lost if you happen to forget to get one in a certain 4-minute window; the feeling of realizing you missed out on three free upgrades sucks. If it’s not intentional, or is meant to be an AI-only effect, well now you know.

Next, when you get enough upgrades… the price just starts going up all on its own, increasing several times per second (4 ish?). I’ve only triggered the effect when I have all (or almost) Protoss upgrades and then get past 42-ish levels of the Engineering upgrade. I do know that the 4-minute discount effect does not cause the inflated price to go down, which I checked by cancelling the queued upgrade to pause the inflation and waiting.

With the Zerg Drop Pods, sometimes I got things for which I had specifically not build the tech structures (Roaches with no Warren, Infestors and Swarm Hosts without an Infestation Pit). I presume that’s unintended.

And I think that’s about all I’ve got for now. I hope this is helpful, and doesn’t come across as condescending. I’ve got plenty of other ideas and thoughts, but this is already… excessive.

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Oh my ! I sure like your enthusiasm for my mod, that’s astonishing!

I’ve taken a summary look to all your points. I’m really open to check every point, step by step, but yea, let’s start with this for now, along with the other requests and bug fixes. As I mentionned, bug fixes are seen immediately, but since my list is growing, it will take more time than expected.

Here’s the plan: Based on your review(s), and on my own decisions, I can try changing content (or not), I will check every point. I will just ask patience, because I have 3 things draining me lately: my baby (she’s nearly 2 yo), my job until ~june and I have an incoming renovation to do this summer (I have to fully build a bathroom in my basement). Also, other reviewers asked me for content. In summary, when I get the chance, I’ll strike all these changes with a lot of vigor, but I just ask of you not to despair if any updates are not seen in the coming months.

I may update at some key moments to correct important bug fixes, and bring some new content too. I will manage!

Thanks again for reviewing!

Edit: I’m really gonna need your help on that one. I tried asking other reviewers, and I tested it myself, I cannot reproduce the bug on which the Missile turret is limited in numbers or cannot be built at certain spots. There is something that you did that brought it, and I can’t pinpoint what it is. Do you remember any details that could help me find a situation in which I can reproduce it? For example, do you know a method in which at 100% of the time you’ll get the bug? Cause I also tried the maps you told me, and I don’t get the bug, still.

I have a theory, but I need you to confirm: is it possible that you had an alliance control or took possession of a Terran unit from a computer player? If that’s the case, that must explain it. I’ll try it on my own.

Thanks in advance.

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Okay, we nearly have a singing frog on our hands. I managed to reproduce the effect, but I’m not sure what exactly is causing it.
EDIT: Well that bites, it won’t let me post a link to the saved replay. Do you have a way I can link it to you? Ive got it on Google Drive for the moment, but if you have another method you’d prefer?
It was FFA, depletion resources, I think default upgrade levels, STT, all map visible, sabotage spawns, Hardcore Trio AI option… I think that was all? I’m not sure which of those options are accurately shown in the replay.

While playing, I studied what I could of what it was doing and when. It progressed normally for most of the game, I was able to build the turrets freely and they behaved normally. Then, at no point I could understand, I started getting errors where they would fail to build. From then on (I only kept at it for a couple minutes) I could only build turrets in very specific places - the sorts of places I’ve seen AIs build turrets - and not always consistently. The functional spots were always either adjacent or one tile away from another structure, and after building several turrets in these spots ones I had seen as viable before were suddenly not available.

My uneducated guesses would be either something to so with the game length (I don’t exactly play short games) or some critical mass of AI turrets being built, or total turret number perhaps. It might also have something to do with chosen upgrades, or the selected AI behavior options, but I was aiming to recreate the effect at all before trying to diagnose. And if it takes a 40 minute game to reproduce, I can only do that so often.

Edit: So it starts at 28 minutes and change, not at a specific cause I could discern. I just started getting Errors. The replay doesn’t show the cursor, but I had a build readied and was mousing around, seeing where the mouse had a cancel mark and where it had a crosshair.
Let’s see if the link will be posted when broken by spaces.
http s://drive. google. com/file/d/12OIULhIrSYHogxVv1DEitsoVWVZ6nUHy/view?usp=sharing

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I’ll just get the information to see what causes this to glitch because that’s a very unreal bug. If you have a youtube account, you can always post your video on it. I use that with link only.

Although I have good news regarding this. For reasons that I can’t quite understand, when I fixed the Vespene Geyser issue (which caused AI to go nuts), it seemed to have released a certain pressure on the AI, regarding their Missile Turret build madness. In other words, I can remove the validator in the build ability which was only destined for computer players and somehow applied to you after 28 mins ?!. You may not need to test or show me further, I’ll have the validator removed in the next patch.

I’ll run more simulations, but from what I can understand, my mod has hurt hardcoded functionalities which cannot be seen when modding. I would be curing them atm by refreshing my ways.

If I ever get the Terran missile turret bug again (which causes AI to build them everywhere non-stop for no apparent reasons) I won’t use the same method which caused you to suffer this bug. I’ll find another way.

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Bug found: The Dark Templar’s Dusk Wind upgrade, the attack speed seems bugged. It acts like it adds 1 to the attack wind up time, causing them to attack only extremely slowly, rather than faster. The other functions (attack range, Blink cooldown reset, Blink autocast) seem to function correctly.

Edit: Also, the Observer’s Cloak Flux upgrade, to increase shielding, does not increase the shields while Observer is in surveilance mode. Auto repair functions correctly.

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Ok so today’s sunday, I took my day off, got the time!

Let’s start:

About the randomness, I did watch the video and it’s instructive. I don’t think I will change my mod’s whole randomness conception, however, I do get that the Propheties Darkness upgrade did bother you. Fun fact, your suggestion of targeting a unit and making it perma cloak was initialy my first idea back then, when I was seeking for the concept. Now today, the way I see it, I did add the random chance of perma cloak as a bonus to the main effect, which temporary cloaked all of them units.

  • I will revise the Propheties Darkness ability to take down the perma cloak’s randomness. [Changed]
  • I might not balance the ability cost because it has a stronger component. I did balance some features (such as Marine enforcer supply to 2) but for most the other upgrades, STT offers strong upgrades that amplifies the game play, just not modify it. Advice taken, however. [Unchanged, won't change unless I see it otherwise]

Concerning the Mind control that can’t be cleansed, it is indeed quite an ordeal. At first sight, I totally agree of this feature being a misconception from my part. I should allow players to cleanse it. On a second note, I’m going to have to think it through, because the editor doesn’t offer the proper content to consider a mind controlled unit to be still part of the initial player’s team. However, it is still possible to manage.

  • I will revise mind control effects. [Fixed]
    Edit: you are aware that gate of protection will now passively protect an enemy unit (your unit being controlled) ?
  • Concerning the fact that each race should have its cleansing ability, I’m still not sure, because I like the idea of some races having the ability to, others not; Just like old Warcraft 1 in which orcs couldn’t heal and humans couldn’t make invulnerable. [Probablly rejected for now]
    Edit: I have upcoming Zerg units that can restore biological units.
  • You just gave me the idea of a cleansing Item.

In regard of the Cloak inconsistencies, I always knew… However, it was my attempt to balance (or allow alternative use) that I made those that way. I’d say, if you insist, I can always revert the cloakabilities and make them all unable to cloak self or other units that are the same. Concerning gates of creation not able to repair each other, It was on purpose to avoid endless annoying revivals, stalling the battle. Of course it could be a funny stalling strategy, but I did find it rather annoying at testing.

  • Please confirm if you want me to make cloakabilities consistent or leave them be. I might however keep Propheties Darkness capable of cloaking anything.

Now with the one shoting. This one always had me debating my ideas. You are very right about it. I just thought, if one is willing to afford a strong unit, he takes the risk of losing it easily at his own risks. But then, when you think about it, all the effort given to get those units which are supposed to turn the tables are ruined by a single lame ability. I get ya. I thought about and I thought making them Heroic Attributes. By that I don’t mean to have their portrait on the right bottom corner, but rather just change their attribute to something that can’t be targetted by 1 shoting abilities. There are just some exceptions that I wanted to allow, such as Omen’s one shoting weapon. The concept is to have its weapon erase of existence any foes, and being heroic isn’t an excuse!

  • I will set powerful unique units as Heroic, and will limit op abilities to non-heroic targeting. If I do forget some in the next patch, please let me know. [Set]
  • Im not sure if it’s worth adding the under attack call for the Graviton Transfer ability, because at basis, the regular graviton beam doesn’t generate it (or does it?!). You may still request for it if you want to know about the death :laughing:. [Unchanged, won't change]
  • I will add to the lvl 50 (or maybe before that) the Heroic Attribute to any unit that’s that level. It’s doable vs status effects. [Set at lvl 9]
  • Nuke’s incapacities will still affect Heroics, but the Heroic Attribute will cause the status to wear off after a time, instead of forever. [Set]

For the limited charges between alternate upgrades, I’m not sure if it was you earlier or another reviewer to asked for it, but assuming I have at least 2 demands, I guess I have to deliver. I wanted to limit those options to change the outcome of each game, but by popular demand (2), yea I can open them all. Concerning the ACV, it is true to be small as a late game experience, but the goal was early game, since it’s strong in growing potential.

About the Marines / Marauder Options, I also thought about opening them all, and to put a cooldown ability on barracks (for example) that could swap the production of those units. If I do that however, I doom any possiblities of using Transfer Behavior Effects, because I’ll have to modify the produced units with non-innate behaviors (that I use to skin them with the weapon) which will anihiliate the possibility of transfering any generic buffs. However, I don’t have any concept of such, so for now it’s safe and doable. perhaps later after all my requests.

  • I will see to open some limited charges upgrades. Please understand that if the reviewes dislike this change, I might revert it. [Changed for you]

For the suggestions, I will slow down right before trying them, because I have a lot of requested content to put before. Also, some of them are likely coop or campaigns, others are cool (such as cliff jumping). Please keep those ideas in mind for later, I will start by the start, cause doing all this is a brain thing in my own.

Bug section:

  • STT no AI doesn’t drop prices? Woops I’ll check this right away. [Fixed]

  • The prices auto-increasing is something I’ve never heard of. Checking this asap and I will fix it if I’m able to stomp it. It might be related with my stt pricer upgrade that’s limited in levels. On my way. [Fixed]

  • Concerning the Drop pods, it was intentional. If you had for example an hive, you would occasionaly spawn units of all kinds. Consistency question, do you want me to fix it straight to the required tech?

  • I’ve seen your reply concerning the dark templar. I’m going to run some trials to see about it. [Fixed]

  • Observer bug noted, will see to it. [Fixed]

That’s it for those, so I’ll wait your reply concerning my * points with questions. You may bring me more bugs, I’ll take them all! However, I can’t take more suggestions for content (or at least not accept/note them right now) because I have so much to do. I’m even thinking about releasing an early patch before I could integrate my latest Void Zergs. Those units are complete, but their conception paths is not ready yet.

Edit: na don’t remove the comment, you may reply as much as you want.

Please allow me to invite you to our sc2 mapster discord:

https://discord.gg/sc2mapster-271701880885870594

In there, find me : Wonder Rem#0515 and contact me from there. I can hardly reply to every point you have, so it will be even more direct from there. I had a discussion with KillingwithFire (he’s one of the first reviwers I got), and I streamed modified its request live. If we can chat it out faster, I might even spoil you my upcoming content. Interested?

For your reply below, I’ve corrected some bugs, the one regarding drop pods supply is something I knew… I don’t have many solutions for it, but I can try something later.
For the balance changes, Graviton Transfer not killing the target seems fine… but I’m not willing to touch it atm. Gates of creation repairing in 8 sec: I tested it with 2% heal, it’s an easy change, but I kinda liked the quick restoration better. Fact: it heals 4% life every 0.16 sec, meaning 25% per 1 second. I can always change the formulae to 3% as a compromise, but I’m still not “Satisfied”. I’ll rethink about it.

I’ll get back to your points later this week, or next week-end, I’m off to sleep and work. See ya later!

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First off, you’re amazing. That just needs frequent restatement.

Regarding the editor and mind control effects, I know very little about the internal mechanics, but the time I lost a unique unit to a Terra, I couldn’t build another due to “you already have one”, so it might be possible for you to figure out a way to piggyback that effect. Understandable if that’s too dang much for too little return though.

For Gates of Creation, the energy cost is already one limiting factor to prevent indefinite holdouts, but if you really wanted to make sure you could extend the effect duration slightly (8 seconds? or based on missing health?) so that the one doing the reviving is vulnerable for longer, giving the other player more time to respond and break the chain.

For Cloak, I think the design philosophy regarding mutual slash permanent cloaking would probably work best boiled down to: Mothership is never cloakable, and permanent cloak effects (if you eventually make a replacement for the Propheties Darkness lasting effect, or the Cloak generator item) cannot cloak heroes. Temporary cloaking (Propheties Darkness current function, Mothership/Nexus Sanctuary cloak field) should work fine on anything except Mothership. (At least, my perspective. It’s certainly fun to give a Mothership or Hybrid Templar a cloak generator, but not at all balanced.)

RE Graviton Transfer, I think a fair balance for that one specifically would be if rather than a fixed damage effect, it A: dealt damage to bystanders based on 80% of victim’s current HP+SP (basing off max seems a bit much), and B: dealt damage to victim by draining Phoenix energy, probably 2dmg/1E to start. If the Phoenix runs out of energy, the victim survives, if not, the phoenix had to pay a noticeable but fair cost to oneshot something. I can understand if that’s too complicated to implement any time soon though. Also, possible bug on that effect: with Veterancy, the spell damage buff applies to the bystander damage. I once oneshoted a Barracks by flinging a Marine into it, which doesn’t seem intended. Kinda funny though. (wait, was it veterancy or the Xel’naga artifact item? I forget. Either way, spell damage boost) Anyway, if you don’t decide to implement something like this, then a Heroic exclusion on Graviton Beam targeting should be quite enough.
Edit 2: Now that I reread and understood what you meant… no, I think the possibility of a spell oneshotting something is fine to leave as an exemption, so it doesn’t need an attack call. If you can add it when the Phoenix fails to oneshot something (using the proposed system above) I think that’d be a cool extra… but not at all necessary.

About the limited charges upgrades, I do like that system, I just think some of the upgrades in the pool aren’t equal choices which makes them feel like auto-nonpicks. The upgrades themselves could do just fine separately.

Drop Pods: I think it should probably stick to units from the tech structures you have, so players can use what they want. If you want to keep a chance for randomized units, it ought to be a small chance, capped at say 1-2 deviant units per drop, and the language of the upgrade should be updated to reflect that. The spell doing something it doesn’t say it should do looks like a bug, not a bonus.

Speaking of bugs, since the supply only updates once the units spawn, you can have near-maxed supply and then drop all four charges at once to go severely over supply. A 5-second cooldown (or however long it takes to spawn the units) between casts ought to work as a patch.

Marine/Marauder options: Nononono, I didn’t mean to sound like you should open all the options. I like the idea of specializing units each game like that. In fact, I think that’s a thing that more units could benefit from. Plus what little I understood about how the units evolve means that that would exponentially complicate things like the AI, and you mentioned transferring buffs. I think that system works and is good.

What I was meaning to say was that having mutually exclusive sets of upgrades like that is a thing that you could do more of, especially for anything you migrate away from the point-buy system. For example, the Zerg speed boost and the six larva upgrade I think would make one fair pair, while the ACV and the resource specialization strike me as another pair. Then with the point-buy pools reduced a bit, three points across only 6-8 options feels much less like missing out and more like making tactical choices.

Zealot bug: when you get all the upgrades and they evolve into High Zealots, their names render as “Unit/Behavior/High Zealot”. Otherwise it seems to work.

So yeah. I’m trying to avoid giving more suggestions, because I’ve got so many ideas. So so soooooo many ideas. And you seem to have quite enough on your plate already.

Edit: Should I edit or remove my older comments to keep the thread size smaller?

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Hello, this is KaBoom. Wanted to say that you are doing a good job so far, Rem.

I actually had a bit of a dumb idea, but what if you were able to summon SC2 heroes that worked simliar to the ‘Heroes of the Storm’ varients? And I don’t mean the mutation; I mean the actual ability list from HotS. Imagine being able to lead your army with a Raynor; Inspire your biological forces to attack, use Penetrating Shot on enemies threatening to rush in, and call down a strafing run from the Hyperion to help besiege your enemies? The talents could even be incorperated in, either with a similar ‘1 per talent tier’ restriction, or if balance isn’t one’s fancy, enable all talents to be unlocked at the proper talent tier. Course, HP, damage, and costs would have to be adjusted so that it fits the Starcraft 2 realm of balance, but how cool would that be?

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I must admit, to imitate work that already exists it pretty hard considering that I don’t know their exact set ups. My mod is also made from content that I created myself, which is why I roll.

For the optimistic side of your question, yes that would be fire! Although, as I stated lately, I have so much to do (since I’m alone on this), and the summer is coming, I’ll have to rebuild my house’s basement, so I’m pretty busy. Back to the topic, building complexe units, adding stuff is nothing impossible, but very time consuming. What I could do is ask you to hold to idea for later, just so that I can at least catch up.

I do listen. Thanks for letting me know. At the moment, I am finishing my Silly Critters Hostile Spawns, and I’ll get on the bug reports I got lately.

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Hello, this is KaBoom.

I suppose originality is for the best; my idea wasn’t considering what you were intending. I do have another suggestion though; since you made the alternative techs for Terran and Zerg able to be gotten without limit, some of the Protoss upgrades could also be unrestricted; namely, Nexus Sanctuary, Protoss Engineering, Warp Harmonization, Void Paradox, and Khali’s Might (if you don’t intend on adding any other observer varient). These upgrades seem safe enough to unrestrict from each other, since they don’t actually heavily affect units enough that would cause conflicts between the upgrades; with the only POSSIBLE exception being Khali’s Might with the Observer if you plan on adding a varient to any of the other upgrades.

Another idea that I thought up is, in order to make buildings feel more useful for upgrades, what if there was an upgrade for each race that enabled the ability to research campaign upgrades? Not entirely original, I know, but its already in the game, so why not?

Also sorry if when I am writing this it sounds demanding, I struggle with that very often. Your mod is great.

EDIT: So after looking over it just a tiny bit more, it seems that the ONLY upgrade that could cause upgrade conflict is the Talon Auxiliaries one. Purifier Tech and possibly Hybrid Synergies could also be unrestricted without any problems; really, there is one restriction; either you get Talon Auxiliaries and miss out on Purifier Tech, or vice versa. Hybrid Synergies doesn’t seem to affect the base zealot enough to truly impact the Talon Auxiliaries’s zealot, but I wouldn’t know for sure.

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Ideas retained. They will wait however, because I have long overdue content before mashing up. I hear you that you would want more freedom on protoss upgrades, I’ll evaluate it.

About the campaign upgrades… this is more of a personal choice here but, I wanted to take my distance from campaign (although some cool upgrades came back such as Warp Harmo). Nonetheless, if more reviewers ask for a close up to the campaign, I’ll consider it, but it won’t be easy. This means playing the campaign again, notifying stats and all, perhaps there would be some uneven features, etc. It’s a big case file.

Ty for propsing ideas.

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Question for you (can’t catch you on sc2). In your review you mentionned issues with the Zerg pods, it is too strong in early game. The idea of casting it near an hatchery is tempting, but I was wondering, what if I just increase the starting cooldown by a lot? Or should I put Lair minimum?

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Ok, I owe you an appology. APPARENTLY, this message didn’t send. I thought it did. Sorry, Rem.

As for the Zerg Drop pods, the starting cooldown won’t change the mid game imbalance; you can quickly snatch all of the different tech structures (with Morphology making this all but a breeze to tech up quickly) and then slam down drop pods ontop of their base to completely wipe it. Even late game this could be used, though because of expansions this isn’t nearly as game ending.

The strength of the ability to spawn an army any time, anywhere with vision is extremely powerful, and it gets stronger when you spawn it right ontop of the enemy due to the Aggressive Brood buff they get that buffs their stats. There are a few ways to fix it to prevent instantly cheesing, as I said in my review.

  1. Limit the ability to being only usable on creep. This option is the simplest yet most effective when it comes to non ZvZ matchups.
  2. Cause the ability to spawn eggs that turn into the units instead of units just instantly appearing. This gives a moment to clear the eggs before they hatch into an army, and makes it more important to cast the ability where it won’t be countered. Think of the Terran’s ability to call down Mineral and Gas pickups, and how it can be countered.
  3. Limit the ability to being only usable near a Hatchery and its evolutions. The safest nerf, IMO.
  4. Make the spawned units WEAKER instead of stronger for a few seconds. This would encourage playing safer with drop pods instead of just haphazardly putting them down.

One of these many options could work. There is also the option of changing the ability entirely, instead allowing units to randomly be dropped onto the battlefield to be rescued. If they aren’t rescued they would either time out and die if not on creep, or automatically become uncommandable and be forced to A-Move enemies if they timed out on creep. This encourages map control to gain extra units, which is pretty good. Only thing left to do is prevent spawns from landing near enemy Command Centers, Nexi, and Hatcheries.

I would recommend doing either options 2/4 (to make droppods more of an ability to bolster your forces if you defend it for long enough), option 3 (to greatly nerf the ability to just spawn it on distant armies), or rework the ability entirely into the concept above.

  • KaBoom

P.S. I seriously don’t know why this message didn’t send. Again, sorry for the late reply.

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Alright, I get your arguments. So yes, I’ll adjust the ability in favor of some of your propositions, you made it very clear and I totally agree.

There are 2 things that I favor in your suggestion: the eggs spawn + the spawn on creep.
The one about having an hatchery near will be studied, and will either be added with those 2, either replace one of them. Maybe I also want just the hatchery proximity + eggs spawns, cause I like the idea to launch zergs anywhere in the fray of a battle, but then, if the creep is the missing thing, perhaps I could think of adding creep spawners or some sort.

  • The weaker spawns proposition, I’d say… what if I was to simply let the Zerg at normal strength, but still use their spawn buff to kill them off if the supplies are overloaded?

Give me a few weeks tho, because I’ll handle this topic along with other things I gotta enhance, and will release a fat patch.

Edit: June 27: Got it, I’ll check this up when I get the chance.

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It isn’t enough to let the Zerg be at normal strength because, even without the buff, that’s still spawning an army ONTOP another army. And since this spawned army most likely has some form of splash damage (banelings being king among them, though infestor’s auto attack with that one upgrade and ultralisks also hurt), it can MELT through an army without much cost to your actual army. Really, it shouldn’t just be a button to 1-shot your enemies army without SOME way to counter it. That is a 1 way ticket to a strongly worded review about the overpoweredness of Zerg.

Picture a Terran army that is going the infamous MMM comp. They are weak to being surrounded by Zerg, so they either load up in the medivacs to escape or stutter step. They are squishy but very dangerous, so its balanced. Now, spawn an army RIGHT ON TOP OF THEM. And then do that 3 more times because you can have up to 4 charges of droppods at once. I don’t think even a fully maxed out Terran army with all of the upgrades can stand to the might of the Zerg spawning right ontop of them with even a quarter of the total upgrades. Instant surround, instant death.

Oh, and since you get cooldown reduction for every unit you kill with Invasion + Droppod, Zerg will prob have ANOTHER charge or 2 ready to go melt the base.

The problem is the inability to react to something so sudden. There is a reason why Nukes aren’t instantly thrown down; they are meant to either break open defenses, or punish stationary armies. Most of the time, units can move away. Buildings kinda die against it but then again if buildings had legs (which, btw, small bug report, PFs can move around on the ground to approach and attack enemies if they are upgraded with that one upgrade that gives everything a reactor-esk effect and lets more buildings lift off) Nukes would be nearly useless once spotted, so it is what it is.

  • KaBoom
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