EMP needs to be removed from the game

General Discussion
1

It’s an automatic “Terran Wins” ability against Protoss and just baffles me why it’s even in the game.

In part 1 it was a slow ability that was given to the science vessel and could be countered. Here in SC2 it cannot be dodged or countered in ANY way.

It’s not like Terran need the ability to win since BC’s and Mech is unbeatable as toss. But the fact that they even have the ability is what makes it impossible to win against Terran (it’s also why I switched to playing Terran now).

To the useless balance team:
How can you not see how OP this ability is???

5 Likes
2

The area of effect is dodgeable if cast only once; it’s that between the facts that …
-You can handily field 5+ Ghosts.
-Each ghost can have an EMP and sometimes even 2 due to it costing only 75 Energy.
-The amount of damage offered from each EMP is enough to neuter Protoss units with high shield amounts, not just low shield targets, so there’s no unit that “beats” EMP.

However, these are all things that very demonstrably don’t completely ruin Protoss: High Templar and Disruptors both can answer Ghosts with their iconic abilities, and Ghosts are not particularly tanky units, thus if not encapsulated within an army is easy to pick off and best, and if deep in an army, allows the Protoss to out position the Terran easily.

While I think it would be for the better if EMP drained fewer shields (100 => 75) so that the tankier sets of units still have meaningful shields after an EMP and sometimes some even after two;
It’s far from necessary. The units perform rather decently if you position around the enemies’ weaknesses that the Ghost creates.

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3

I can tell you clearly don’t play this game because it’s pretty clear that you can’t dodge EMP realistically

Ghost EMP also removes energy i.e. high templars cannot use their spell if hit by EMP. Have you checked the effective range of storm vs. EMP? Now try feedback vs. EMP. High templars at best can tickle ghosts with storm, but EMP can devastate high templars. Good luck using feedback on ghosts - units that can cloak as well mind you.

Ghosts do not have any weaknesses. They perform equally against other units or better.

2 Likes
4

Feedback is Instant, EMP is not. Feedback has 10 range as well, so both would occur, assuming that both actions happened at exactly the same time.

They definitely do. They are very squishy, like the rest of the bio army so splash hurts a lot. Disruptors, colossus etc… and they aren’t super high DPS units either, though it’s not terrible. They’re also fairly expensive too.

With a prism you absolutely can - it comes down to a micro battle. EMP is a (fast moving, admittedly) projectile. It is not instant. While it’s not necessarily feasible to reactively split against EMP, it’s certainly possible to mitigate its effects.

Now, having said that, I’ve long been of the opinion that EMP does not need its upgrade, so if we had to nerf it, simply remove the upgrade and it would be balanced. It’s problem is purely that it hits a huge amount of units, and frankly it was never an issue prior to the EMP radius upgrade being introduced.

5

Lol imagine ht walk like terran ghost free and save instead save that in prism where it can be sniped easily

6

Imagine thinking it’s easy to snipe the prism which is one of the fastest moving units in the game (albeit requiring an upgrade to make it super speedy), doesn’t care about terrain, and is generally at the back of the army, protected by everything else. You mock my suggestion, but it’s something that we see in pro-play, prisms protecting the Templar from EMP.

We definitely also see prisms getting sniped, but just as frequently we see prisms getting storms off. Like I said, it’s a micro battle.

2 Likes
7

EMP isn’t really dodgeable without blink - and even then you have less than half a second to make that timing. Not exactly realistic to expect us to play like alphastar to mitigate an ability…for the same reason Blizzard doesn’t balance around 50k APM Terran AIs that stutter step individual marines.

I do think EMP is a dodgey spell. The energy drain is OK…but after the upgrade imo the shield damage is a bit much…but then again Terran have to deal with Disruptors…so yeah…it is what it is.

1 Like
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Hi Gandhi i would like to apologize you.

I thought you were the only protoss whiner on this forum. Now i know you are not. Sorry about that.

9

Correct me if I’m wrong - EMP has 10 range, but that’s calculated from the ghost to the center of the EMP circle. EMP has 1.5 or 2 radius with the upgrade. EMP’s maximum range, then, is 12. So EMP actually has a greater effective range than feedback. Also, for feedback, you need to target the exact unit. For EMP, you just have to aim in that area i.e. you’re more likely to land EMP than feedback effectively.

They are the only “legitimate” spell caster that also function as a good fighting unit. They do good damage vs. light units. To say they do not have high DPS is ridiculous. They have as much DPS as a zealot vs. light units for reference.

Ghosts have the highest health out of all ground spell casters. They have a decent amount of health too. Not as much as a marauder, but almost double that of a marine with the upgrade. They are by no means “very squishy.” That belongs to marines.

So are the other spell casters, give or take.

That’s not dodging

This is not dodging either

The ghost is arguably the most well-rounded unit in the game. Obviously I’m exaggerating a little when I say ghosts do not have any weakness, but they really do have almost none.

3 Likes
10

For speedy unit need upgrade lol kek terran dont pay for medivac standart boost

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Hahaha you just outed your level and your credibility with this statement, if your title wasn’t already enough.

You aren’t losing because the game is imbalanced, you’re losing because you’re not a very good player yet.

You can improve your skill and win more. You’re not at a high enough skill level where game balance matters, where you’re at your skill level and how you play is all that matters.

12

Complaining about the existence of EMP is like complaining about the existence of Storm. I never said Storm should be removed because it is core of SC2, even though so many times few storms have been the decider in battles, because EMP always disables everything right? The fact that some here defend how ‘totally unbeatable EMP is’ is laughable. I’m sure that the result would be the same if EMP had its upgrade removed. The whine would be the same

3 Likes
13

Whats your excuse for being hardstucked diamound with Toss ?
You are losing because you suck

1 Like
14

Joke of the week.

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15

I dunno man, Storm deals damage over time and can be mitigated with micro…but it also kills. EMP doesn’t kill, is barely dodgeable and it’s damage is only vs shields.

I don’t think they’re remotely comparable, they do different things. Fungal is closer to what Storm is.

1 Like
17

How is picking up a unit inside a prism before the spell effect lands not dodging?

Of course, I dont expect us mere plebs to be able to do it well, or even at all depending on the rank youre at, but for pros, it shouldnt really be an issue.

Sure, compared to other bio units specifically. However, compared to most other units in the game (at least ones that arent specifically zerg, and even some of them) ghosts dont have all that much health. To be fair, most casters don’t.

In theory, yes. In practice, not so much. Ghosts must move into that 10 range radius before it can be launched, even if the maximum radius is slightly larger than indicated. You aren’t often casting in front of the templar and attempting to clip them with the edge radius, because then you risk missing them entirely. Rather you’re casting on the templar directly so they can’t move out of it.

2 Likes
18

No. But speedy warp prism has boosted medivac speed permanently. Boosted medivac is slow without the boost and boost only lasts a short time. Plus, toss has faster units that can catch both prisms and medivacs, and medivacs are vulnerable to feedback as well, which completely removes their healing as well as doing hull damage. Prism has 5 pickup range, is fast, has more HP than a medivac and is still faster than an unboosted medivac, and can warp in reinforcements.

Of the two, the medivac is arguably more USEFUL overall, but the prism is arguably better as a dropship.

1 Like
19

I’ve personally blinked out, picked-up, and have capitalized on Phoenix speed to waste dozens of lone EMP casts so I don’t know what to tell you. You later describe these as not dodging, but that just means your definition of dodging doesn’t match how players use it. Dodging is not exclusively walk out of the targetted area before it hits. It is any action that causes the unit to be safe.
It’s certainly something that requires a bit more prediction or luck than true evasive action, but it’s still dodged EMPs and a lot of the spells that are usually talked about as being avoidable in this game are of a similar projectile speed. Even Storm, which doesn’t have travel time, is considered dodgeable.

Yes; I’m well aware of the 1.5 range difference between Storm and upgraded EMP. High Templar still function against Ghosts; and their Energy can be protected with a Prism. I don’t think it’s unreasonable; because you can drop the Templar already in range of the Ghost; and if the Terran is sniping units as they peek into vision it’s easier to dodge.

Ghosts are expensive, not bulky, and primarily are a force multiplier against Protoss due to EMP only damaging shields and energy. This means the unit will not be left alone. It usually forces Terran armies to bundle up together, which clamps the army’s mobility to the slower units’ 3.15 movement speed; something that many Protoss units out-do.
The Ghost, as a direct combat unit, only has one real weakness of being expensive per HP and per DPS, though, it is true. I apologize for leaving too much unsaid.

You can also split your units up before combats start so that they’re not balled up so that EMP doesn’t kill them (though the nature of Marines and Guardian Shield somewhat hampers this strategy).
My point is that you have options, and that the ability isn’t entirely unanswerable with reactions (though as you point out, it is rather specific).

They also have half the DPS vs. nonlight units and cost almost three times as many resources as a Zealot (though they’re melee) or twice as much as a Stalker (to use a ranged unit). These are very important attributes.

If we compare the spellcasters, sure, Ghosts are the same price. But if we compare the abilities to those spellcasters, the other spellcasters have access to just as impactful battle-changing abilities.

While the other spellcasters don’t do as much damage with their attacks if they even have one, that means the Ghost is making itself vulnerable to attacks, splash, spells targetting the main army, and so on. So to make use of its good attack, the Ghost temporarily gains a weakness the other spellcasters don’t have.

1 Like
20

right this means Terran gets what vs Storm and shizz exactly? No your clearly biased and s t u p i d.

21

That’s called PREDICTING

End result is that it’s easier for Terran than Protoss

You either have pro level reaction speed or you’re just predicting your opponent’s moves, although blink is somewhat of a dodge

Fair enough. That’s 1 case out of many others

Just FYI colossus and disruptor also have 3.15 speed. High templars have 2.62. Of course, this may be somewhat compensated by warp prism. Infestors also have 3.15 speed. Bio units also have 3.15 speed unless they stim. Interpret these facts as you will

My point in mentioning this is to show how powerful the ghost is overall…

Ghosts are arguably the most powerful spell casters in the game (in competition with the viper). All spell casters have the ability to turn the tide of battle one way or another. The ghost does it better than any unit.

Am I missing something or are you suggesting that the ghost’s auto attack makes it weaker…?

General notes

  1. I’m not for removing EMP from the game, but I really do believe adding the EMP upgrade was completely unnecessary
  2. There is a difference between dodging and predicting (preemptive splitting falls under prediction)