I always feel so useless in the beginning when playing Raynor due to his long build up time, especially compared to powerhouses like Tychus, Nova, Dehaka, and Zeratul. Some of the enemy comps on brutal can outright destroy me at the beginning unless I scout ahead to find out if it’s coming and build against it, in which case I have to take longer in building up the Orbital Commands. And without all of those Orbital Commands, you suffer tremendously throughout the game. Clearly I am not one of those players who have 100+ APM, but it seems like in order to not be so useless early on, it requires it. This just doesn’t sit right with me, and I have no problem with APM on any other CO except Raynor.
So I have a proposal for what I feel is a problem. And my proposal is; What if Raynor started with a fully charged Orbital Command? I think those 3-4 extra M.U.L.E.s would fix Raynor’s early game and the issues I mentioned above without having to tweak or buff anything else.
Is your Raynor lvl 15.
If not, Hybrid Probe is right.
You’ll have the banshee calldown for early game, which is more than enough and on your way to 4+ OCs and 8+ baracks you can already pump out a few marines and medics to help your ally with pushing the first objectives. Also instant depots free up your macro a lot. Just don’t wait to produce units until you have all those OCs and baracks, get some units every now and then in between.
It sounds like your problem is the early build order which if done incorrectly or inefficiently can choke Raynor’s effectiveness. Same applies to basically every other commander.
You need to outline exactly what you do in the first few minutes. If a problem is spotted, it can then be fixed.
Giving Raynor an OC with full energy isn’t the right solution. In the hands of a skilled player, Raynor will be a mineral speed demon.
I think you are also missing the point of my (and other’s) post. Raynor doesn’t take that long to get going nor is your statement about “others will clearer the map” true while he’s still ramping up.
And that’s why it is relevant. So make of it what you will . And as you said, there is a difference between being able to play and win versus steamrolling. Why would people disagree if that is the case?
I do understand your concerns if you compare him to strong hero commanders like the ones you mentioned. But to be fair, that’s the main advantage hero commanders have, early game. Raynor can get much stronger than them in the mid and late game.
Apart from air comps, Raynor can easily deflect the first attack wave on his own with Banshees. If you don’t want to waste the calldown on that, a bunker and some marines do just fine, you can salvage the bunker after to help the macro ramp.
And if you do get paired with one of the early game commanders, just laugh and sit back. It’s crazy how strong Raynor gets when you can just not build a unit before half a dozen OCs are done.
I understand your struggle because if we do not mention anything about the call down, Raynor in early game is very weak. I think if they attack with Hellion or Adept, i will have even harder time.
Maps that demand early aggression like Part & parcel are even more ridiculous. Using 10 marines to push 2 bunkers lol.
Thing with Raynor early game is it makes you feel restless as if the game is trying to choke you to death. Very little room for mistake and mismanagement. Only after you got 1 MULE down that you start having some extra saving for units.
Saying that giving a full-energy OC in the beginning is too much of an overkill. Not only is you given a buildings that cost you a Barrack require but also giving 150 mineral for free and 4 super harvesters. Even if they give you a 0-energy OC, it will still be kind of cheating.
If they tune down the harvest power of MULE than yes, it is ok to have a full-energy OC.
I find that Raynor requires more early APM than other commanders in order to achieve the same end result, though we’d need to test to be sure. Is that a bad thing? I’d say “no”, rather it’s just some variety, which is great. The thing about buffing Raynor, even a starting buff, is that he’s already really powerful in the hands of people better than me.
In view of that I like to think of Raynor as the commander to play when I want to challenge myself.
If a player is to ignore his powerful and timely calldowns by not using them when they become available, then their build order simply has to compensate.
This is the straight point I referred to where all they have to do is make a Barracks, OC it up, then make bio. It can be a combination of M/M/M/F. Long before any objective and/or wave comes, Raynor can have a sizeable army for early game standard.
The problem (as it were) people refer to is not a design issue at all. It is just that they are too greedy. By that I mean, you can’t ‘not use calldowns’ and ‘tech up/macro’ and ‘not make an army’. That just doesn’t work… not unless someone’s carrying you.
For early game:
–use Bunkers
Even if you don’t fill them with his infantry units, they can still attack (albeit weakly), but do provide several hundred hp for an enemy wave to go through. Remember to salvage bunkers for resources back if you’re done with them.
–Dusk Wings
These can handle any early, non-air attack wave
–Hyperion
Coolup is higher, but these are even better
.
Beyond that, make an OC when your Rax gets done. Make another 1 for your expansion, and perhaps a 3rd or 4th one. Definitely make 1 OC for every 5 minutes you’ll be in the game. One reason I don’t like playing as Raynor is all the micro, spamming units evne more crazily than other COs, and having to keep up with OCs.
Raynor is probably one of the hardest, if not hardest to play to his full potential. But if you do, Oh boi…
If not, then play Zeratul cannon spam and you will get the same thing with less skill.
So in other words you all think he is fine as is and should have that extremely slow start relying only on cooldowns and your ally and deal with that potential first wave gank making it slower to get to multiple OCs?
Why is that an issue for you. We are saying he isn’t slow. Based on your logic then…
Zeratul should be able to pump out more than 2 Stalkers right? Because Zoraya Legion is a calldown that shouldn’t be used. He must have a weak early game
Dehaka should be able to macro up with more than just some Primal Zerglings because Glevig mustn’t be used, as it is another calldown
Nova and her 4 Marines by wave 1 must be stronger in comparison to Hyperion + 4 Dusk Wings
Just a few examples to get the point across. By then you should have plenty of macro to get an army going. Meanwhile, Hyperion and Dusk Wings are readily available again to further carry midgame… oh but wait we can’t use them because that’s crazy
. And as you said, there is a difference between being able to play and win versus steamrolling. Why would people disagree if that is the case?
