I’m no theorycrafter/pro at coop or anything I just consider swann my favorite commander, and with the sheer amount of upgrades you need to make a mech comp viable on non-turtle maps he just simply needs some love in the econ departmeng. Cut supply depot cost in half, cut any 200 mineral/gas upgrade in half, make goliaths 100 minerals instead of 150 (I’d settle for 125), or make factories themselves 100 minerals. Better yet GIVE HIM MULES. I love this commander in theory just give him some early game viability please <3
Swann has 3 things going for him in the early game.
He can expand really fast. Prior to Mengsk being released he could expand WAY faster than any other Terran CO. Fast expanding helps a lot with his mineral starvation.
He has Warbots. The Warbots are capable of clearing any early game objective on Brutal by themselves, and then stick around for a good bit afterward.
His units are super strong and highly microable allowing you to gain a lot of value out of only a few units. 3-4 tanks inside a Herc is super strong in the early game and only gets better as you add in additional tanks, science vessels and goliaths.
The trick to playing Swann is to expand quick, and get max value out of the units you build not needlessly throwing them away like you’re Mengsk or Raynor.
Use Repair, a LOT. It’s one of the best things about Swann so use it. Bring SCVs with your early game units. Use those SCVs to rapidly build a turret to help your tanks out and then salvage it when you’re done.
Swann actually has much better early game than a lot of people give him credit for. It just takes some practice to get good at.
Good points. I’ll def try the mass scv turret building with my army in the early stages. My concern has just been outside of warbot uptime and on maps where expanding is not easily accessible he’s just an early game econ nightmare with the sheer amount of research and macro he needs compared to most commanders and I rarely feel like I can assist my ally in the first few waves unless its a static defense situation
The saving grace for all of his slowness is his mass build. On a map like Parts and Parcel for example that has a guarded expansion, that first warbot drop can easily clear it. To make up for how long it took to do that compared to a rocks expansion map bring several SCVs (like 8-10) to build the CC at the natural expansion. That will accelerate the process and get your guys mining much faster.
Same thing with base construction. You can use a few SCVs to make a Factory or a Starport so that each SCV is only off of mining for a couple seconds. Speed build the building then get them back to mining.
It’s the one thing I see over and over again from rookie swann players. They’re not creative enough with how many ways that mass build can give you an edge.
Mengsk too has this going for him, and in his case his workers are all troopers too so it’s an even bigger advantage.
Nice, brother. You’re also a man of culture, power to you.
Absolutely not. Goliaths are his least micro-intensive, easiest to pull off and second most effective damage-wise (been told Hercules-Tanks are the good stuff, and I’m inclined to believe) composition. If anything, half of his other units would need buff to bring them up to par with the Goliaths (Wraiths, Cyclones, Thors).
Many theorized about this, or increasing his Supply Depots’ supply to an H&H one. I’m indifferent about it personally, even though he’s my main (on par with Tychus).
Nah, that’s for Raynor. Swann gets extra Vespene, giving him basically infinite minerals would be bonkers.
Turrets or Hellbats to stop the first attack wave, some better players than I use the Drill as well (with the mastery), A.R.E.S. Warbots once they’re off cooldown. Swann’s early game might be a bit sluggish at times, but he has one of the most powerful late games, as well as being a fantastic partner for many of the Vespene heavy Commanders out there.
You already have MULEs, but Swann decided to replace that mining laser with some big guns. Those bots are meant to carry you through early game while you rush an exp and then a Hercules with some tanks.
Speaking of that map, one trick I like doing there is taking my first 2 tanks and the hercules and just warp to the middle left, skipping the defenses (usually 2 bunkers or other static defenses) and get to clear all the parts there for free.
This is pretty relevant to early game econ, have you guys had any success with Laser Drill mastery? I go with full Vespene Drone by default since his early game is so starved on both minerals and gas, and to use the earlier drill you’d have to rush an armory and delay your army by a ton. I want to get it working since I love that drill, but I just can’t justify it.
In my amateur opinion the Drill Masteries feel kind of pointless, and I’d like to see them replaced with a Research Cost Reduction and a Starting Supply Mastery to help him get his early game running faster at the expense of early Drones and better Warbots.
Flying Factories around to target for the Laser Drill is fun, but it looses its charm when your ally starts rolling over bases before his army can hit a critical mass.
I put 5 points into it, mostly for the cost reduction on the upgrades. But i have put full points into it before for a specific mutation although I forget off hand which one that was.
It is very expensive mineral wise to do it though, the thing I’ve found is to just not make Vespene Drones as quickly as I would with the mastery.
With my build as it is now. 25 into Vespene Drones, 5 into Laser Drill, my drones cost 25 minerals each which is double what they would with 30 points but still cheap.
The 7.5% mastery might not seem like a lot, but it works on all 3 cost, build time and research time. I’ve found those 5 points worth the extra 15 minerals i would save on each drone.
Often trying different ‘strats’ or looking up different games from different players might allow you to catch something you have missed or haven’t thought of.
Personally Swann is one of my favorite for expansion. You can build turrets both for first wave defense and for expo, his turrets can be salvaged for full cost so that right there gives you A LOT of breathing room. Not to mention that when you clear your expo with 2/3 turrets, by salvaging them you already have automatically enough minerals to build a CC and 2 gas extractors. Plus his SCVs can all stack on buildings and turrets for quick set ups. Swann is one of the golden boys for setting up. And often rewards both low APM and high APM play.
I’ve been doing a 15/15 split. Full harvester feels wasted if my ally takes his time in making gas buildings. 100mins is expensive for each. This way, I get the better of both worlds… 55mins for the harvester, and I still get discounts AND faster bt when leveling up the DLD (Drakken Laser Drill). It’s fun to power up its primary attack, but also have access to Concentrated Beam and “nuke”.
I use full drill mastery. You lose scv production for some seconds but I can do marvels with it like fast expanding on SoA and cleaning bonus at the same time.
The nuke and beam are cheap to research and spammable through the whole game. Drones are expensive and I use them a bit late but I really get a more agressive Swann cleaning areas or assisting my units with drill’s calldowns. I fast expand asap to compensate the drones cost though.
If you don’t want to use a flying factory you can clean rocks with the rushed drill + ares.