Double check of balance graph

General Discussion
1

It seem to me. That people did not trust graph. Which showed protoss overpowered. Because they did not understand it. And did not trust author of graph. So they could not trust conclusion.

h ttps://i.imgur.com/lBx29DG.png

So I will double check result. Using only aligulac. And simple math which any poster can do. Author predict pvp elo is smaller than pvz/pvt.

From this list. I will select 5 player of protoss. At random.

h ttp://aligulac.com/periods/latest/

To do this I will set Show Race to protoss. And it tell me the number of protoss. Which is 466. And I will use random number website. To select players at random.

h ttps://www.random.org/integers/

The numbers I receive are…

446 356 124 133 50

Which are players…

446 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/17327-ReaLiTy/
356 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/21157-SlastyNasty/
124 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/19134-%EA%B9%80%EC%A4%80%EC%8B%9D/
133 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/20703-Minik/
50 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/519-KingCobra/

Now we take average of protoss rank. For each matchup.

ReaLiTy…
710 vs p
828 vs t
635 vs z

SlastyNasty… (disqualified for no games)
924 vs p
924 vs t
924 vs z

SlastyNasty replacement…
267 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/21534-BRANIMIR/

BRANIMIR… (disqualified for no games)
974 vs p
974 vs t
974 vs z

BRANIMIR replacement…
407 h ttp://aligulac.com/players/8544-Quasar/

Quasar…
899 vs p
876 vs t
855 vs z

김준식…
1173 vs p
1139 vs t
1156 vs z

Minic…
1077 vs p
1110 vs t
1168 vs z

KingCobra…
1657 vs p
1727 vs t
1784 vs z

Now we do average of each matchup. To see how protoss do as group…

Average…
vs P 1103.2
vs T 1136
vs Z 1119.6

1136 > 1103.2 = Pvt > Pvp
1119.6 > 1103.2 = Pvz > pvp

So it is proved. Author of graph was right. P>T and P>Z. I hope you can understand. Protoss do best when game is asymmetrical. So asymmetry of matchup give protoss advantage. This is straight from aligulac. With no bias. Any poster can perform this test! And I encourage any poster to. Protoss is overpowered. And overperform in pvz/pvt compared to pvp.

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2

Who wants to explain sample size to this kid lol?

Also, did you check your data beyond just taking the mean? The majority of people you selected did BETTER in the mirror than one of their asymmetric match ups.

Only 2 of the 5 players outperformed the mirror in PvZ & PvT. Of the 5 Players, 2 had Toss as their worst match-up, 2 had zerg, one had terran. That almost sounds balanced!!!

Your entire result comes from the fact that KingCobra is bad at PvP, my guess is you hand picked him as your last data point when you realized the mean without including him gave you the opposite result.

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3

If you did all players. You get chart listed in original post. Is that big enough…?

1 Like
4

The one that says Terran is fine, Toss is overpowered, and Zerg is in desperate need of a buff an has been for years. No one with a triple digit IQ thinks that’s right.

Like we said before, PvP is the most unstable mirror. That or we should double bane damage… Oh God what a nightmare.

2 Likes
5

You reject fact … because you do not like it…

1 Like
6

I take it back… lets BUFF Zerg. I’m with you 100%. You convinced me.

I say larva spawn cut in half, energy and cost of inject halved. Who’s with me and barcode, let’s break the game because his math and logic is flawless!!!

2 Likes
7

Pvp is like other matchup. It predict pvt/pvz with 90% accuracy for 1 player. For average of many player it is 99.999999. Same for zvz and tvt. It is a fact you may not like. But that does not make it not fact.

Why do you make or about zerg? Protoss is overpowered. Against both terran and zerg.

8

10% is a huge swing and I doubt the correlation was 90% exactly for all 3 but who cares. We’re buffing Zerg… .also we should talk about how to nerf terran. Based on your graph they actually have the most imbalanced matchup in the game in TvZ… so unfair for poor zerg, this is why they can never win a tournament.

9

Because, zerg had the inverse result to protoss in your graph. Try to stay with me on this but. If Protoss outperforming their mirror is proof that the whole race is overpowered, the inverse must also be true for zerg being massively under powered because of their lower performance. This is especially true of dirty terran who victimize zerg with the most imbalance matachup in the whole game!!!

We have to buff zerg and nerf terran and protoss to be fair!!!

Or maybe zerg just has a stable mirror and that’s all you managed to prove.

10

XD XD XD

It mean that pvt/pvz can vary. But when modeled by pvp 90% of variation is removed… that is for single player. For average of many player. Confidence is 99.99999% accurate.

11

The problem with zerg is economics. Which is overpowered. But challenge to get strongest economy is too great. For most player. Serral will get 99% most drones. But most zerg only get 70%. So zerg is balance on difficulty. It cannot be easy. Or eco is overpowered. It is that simple. So serral win every tournament. But zerg in general struggled.

Tvp problem is efficiency of protoss army. Which is off charts. They have stronger eco. And more efficient army. Just check maguro .one website…

12

Just answer one question… if you think your chart is the definitive proof of where balance stands, should we massively buff zerg, especially against terran?

13

Difficult of zerg should be reduced. Like blizzard did. For terran with mech… cyclone and hellions much easier. Than marine widow mine… and peak eco should be nerfed. Because easier zerg is. The easier it is to get max eco.

14

So in short… yes, you want to buff zerg, especially against terran, by making them easier to play while getting the same results.

You’re insane. Zerg already dominates. You really are digging in rather than just admitting your chart only captured the instability of the mirror.

4 Likes
15

Sounds kind of like you are saying that you lose because your macro is bad.

16

I do not play zerg. But that is my thought. From perspective as terran. And seeing many pro games.

17

Your take away from pro matches is zerg needs a buff!!! What parallel hell have I fallen into HAHAHAHHAH!!!

18

That is opposition of what I post. I said keep strength the same. But make it easier. Zerg is least played race for reason. And low league player avoid it like plague… just check rankedftw…

19

Not to be mean but who cares about metal league? Even Diamond to masters is a LTP issue. Beyond that you do realize that keeping power the same but making it easier would be a buff by definition. If you have an easier time that frees up APM to manage other tasks, unless you’re talking about autoinject at the same pace which is just broken.

20

Its ok man… stop fighting it. I’m a diamond 3 terran after years of grinding (im not very good) but I still got to D1 with protoss in about 30-ish games. If this isn’t proof of protoss being easier and more powerful, I don’t know what is. Protoss is also the one performing best in pro scene since the battery overcharge buff.

Terran needs heavy buffs and protoss heavy nerfs. Its ok, the game will be more fun and you will need to start thinking and using your brain. This is good for everyone.

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