#DesignTeamLogic

General Discussion
21

I played a game just the other day that was just as I said. Every time a BC would finish, he would “warp it in my base.” I started this game way ahead. But, I still lost just because I was never allowed to move across the map.

Later in the game, once he already had gotten an advantage due to the aforementioned, he would attack with BCs and then try to warp out. The BC is a combination of playing against Toss warp-ins, the HotS swarm host, the HotS raven, and nexus recall.

Compare all of that to the mothership… Which one is the real hero unit… There isn’t a price point you could give the BC that would make sense/seem balanced.

I know everyone says that. While there is truth to it, I do think the disruptor is actually Toss’ best option of managing tanks. Like, if tanks are already sieged up on your base, you’ve lost no matter what you made. But, with disruptors, you at least have a chance to prevent the tanks from leap frogging into w/e position they want.

I know you like to give me grief for going sky toss, but some of it boils down to the disruptor. If you’re not incorporating the disruptor, what are you doing? You’re playing a nerfed version of HotS Toss versus buffed LotV races. Well, at least an extremely buffed and improved Terran.

Despite popular belief, Toss never managed much better than 50%, at any point in HotS vs Terran, outside of the era/months of only doing the blink stalker all-in. You can’t play Toss in a similar fashion, as in HotS, and hope to even reach 50%.

So, you have to figure out how to make your only new tool, with any potential, work. There’s only 2 comps with any real synergy with disruptors. Stalker, disruptor and carrier/sky toss, disruptor.

Any comp without air units is very easy to exploit, though. It’s also very easy to beat via multi pronged attacks. Even in a straight up fight, liberators can still reign supreme.

The disruptor is, honestly, imbalanced if anything. It’s probably the strongest Toss unit, to date. It just doesn’t have many viable synergies. No matter how good the disruptor may be, it’s still going to kill your zealots and what not…

2 Likes
22

Mass turrets at your mineral lines, Cloacked powerful superfast unit, Cheap fast moving unit with low supply requirements equiped with yamato.

Stop being so biased about BCs cause your probably lost a couple of games cause you failed to put spore crawlers in you mineral line.

With out AA your are exposed at the same level as clocked banshees, don’t hear you complaining about that.

23

Best part is, the Zergs are the whiniest people on this forum. Look at Batz myriad of posts where he just whines and whines about Terran free units? Lmfao. He also whines about immortals, liberators, BCs, marines, medivacs, mules, warp prisms. He spearheads the Zerg Cry Force.

2 Likes
24

Lol okay

  1. Ae are talking about early game here, 300minerals for 2 spores is alot.
  2. BC’s can fire while moving and shred light units, drones are melted by them. So you are going to have to end up moving them away from the line, and by doing that you will bring the BC with them, thus moving it out of range of the spores.
  3. BC’s have extremely high health, the damage they can do in the time it would take for 2 spores to kill it is massive.
    The only reason why you lose a BC is if you literally just let it sit there and die.

…a direct early game tech up into spire?? Lmfaoo what? This isn’t terran or toss, zerg CANNOT do that without extreme repercussions.

It happens all the time, you only need a handful of BC to force a large commitment of corruptors. If you engage with your main army and simply pop the BC in for harrass, you most certainly can do good eco damage even with corruptors out. By the time corruptors are critical mass terran should already have transitioned into whatever it is they wanted. You can literally make 3 BC in the early game and they pay for themselves 10x over with how much damage they do just by keeping them alive.

Just because something has counter play does not mean it is good or okay for the game. Pre-nerf nydus had counter play, but it was still bs, mother ship core had counter play, but it was still bs. The BC being able to do what it does as EARLY as it can is bs and needs to be adjusted.

5 Likes
25

  1. The cost to produce that BC is 300 mineral and 275 gas for building requirements and 400 minerals and 300 gas for the BC itself. A total cost 800 minerals and 575 gas if you include yamato upgrade too that 950 minerals and 725 gas in early game for a single unit. I am really sorry that you don’t want to spend a fraction of that to neglect it. God forbid if zerg have to spend some money in “static” defences like the rest of races do. Quite easy to just use your fast moving army on creep to defend bases from attacks you can see coming from 203423 miles away due to creep/overlords spread.

  2. Are your queens afk or something?

  3. Again where are your queens if you are not able to kill it, you are most certainly able to drive it away.

Welcome to the world of having to make the decision if you going fast tech and therefore have zero units to defend against an attack or play as normal. When a terran rushes BC there is absolutely nothing back home. Build some roaches and go have some fun.

Finally the BC rush became a thing as a desperate attempt from terran players to somewhat keep zerg in control since everything else fails to contain them. You want to see BC not to be a thing anymore zerg have to stop multiplying like bacteria at insane rates. You are the only race in the game that can be supply capped in one production cycle after a fight. No one can spit out units faster as zerg unless they spend a tone of resources in infrastructure e.g 5-6 barracks with attachments.

26

I totally know what you mean here like stalkers are the only thing that really works well with them and by themselves theyre awful at everything but defending ramps. But its cool you found a way to use them lategame.

Irony of that is lings work well with disruptors in team games because you can surround stuff and force it to eat a shot while still having time to save the lings because they’re so damn fast.

1 Like
27

A) terran was going to invest into that tech anyway.
B) the tech cost is very small when you consider terrans can get it out while zerg is stuck on tier 1. This is especially the case since they can do that while having equal economy to the zerg AND how it completely and utterly nullifies all forms of zerg aggression (defense is expensive, so if your opponent can’t attack you, then you are saving lots of $$$$).

???

You are joking, right? Terrans are the ones who don’t have to make decisions because they can make 1 super hero unit. What are you smoking?

2 Likes
28

There is also no reason for the Queen to counter everything, but here we are…

5 Likes
29

Does the queen have the highest base armor in the game, best anti ground in the game, the ability to shoot while moving, the ability to delete enemy units from siege range with 1 click, more HP than an ultralisk, the sight range of an overseer, the only infinite-range teleport in the game, and the only teleport ability in the game that can ignore fog of war?

3 Likes
30

Lol everything you need for BCs you were getting already except the fusion core and tech lab. And the BC never dies because of tactical jump and repair, and it just stacks value over time. This is what terrans are seemingly incapable of understanding. Hellions die to get drone kills. Banshees and oracles and phoenixes are short range and fragile and need good micro. Libs are literally immobile when harassing. Voids are slow as hell. Notice a pattern? The BC has no risk attached. Its an investment into guaranteed damage over time.

7 Likes
31

Yes you have a great point there. Didn’t even think about how they made gateway units weaker because of the wArp in ability. But like Ive said before Tactical Jump was basically introduced in the Heart Of The Swarm campaign and it was a stupid ability (really only meant for the Hyperion). But even in that Mira/Horner mission it’s not like you could warp anywhere on the map. Only short distances. Pretty sure even Swann himself would have said it’s broken. I mean if you could warp anywhere on the map. LOL.

2 Likes
32

Does the BC spawn free production? Does the BC defend your base from every allin/harass in the game? Does the BC spawn free vision? No. I do however know of a unit from Zerg that does. The Queen.

1 Like
33

Ok I’m honestly curious here, and other terrans feel free to reply as well but like what would it take for you to think the queen is fair?

Because all the solutions so far have been pretty awful to be honest. And the extra range that most people object to was added because of libs so if you want that gone you need to accept a lib range nerf and maybe it comes back with the upgrade. Thats all I can think of as a zerg that would be acceptable to us.

We would probably be ok with making the queen 3 supply if it didnt screw with build orders. Reducing health is dangerous because of how important they are to defend things like 12 pool or a bunker rush.

1 Like
34

1 queen per hatchery, or add a tag to it. One or the other, because then it either can’t be massed, or it actually has unit counters. The entire reason the BC opener cannot be nerfed is because there is no other aggression we can open vs zerg outside bunker rushing that gets any damage done.

2 Likes
35

1 queen per hatch is ridiculous, we would never get our fourth covered in time to defend pushes on it. And I dont just mean vision we need creep to defend because on most maps thats where the terrain gets really tricky.

The tag idea is hard to make work because then hellion cyclone becomes insanely good no matter which you pick, light or armored. Also I cant help but remember that you can already emp them and its not like ghosts are difficult to tech into.

This is the problem though, it feels like you see zerg being capable of defending as a bad thing. Its not even true that you cant get damage with other openers, we saw it before the bc was buffed and we still see it now. Usually the drone kills are coming from hellions. So it kind of feels like I’m talking about a painting with someone who is color blind, no offense.

1 Like
36

Bc - yes.
Queen - no.

The same sight range as an overseer, with the freedom to roam anywhere in the zerg base thanks to the highest base armor in the game and highest hp.

37

The other day, my M2 Zerg buddy told me: “I think one of my problems is, that I just set up a concave, then a-click my units and then go back to injecting while the battle happens.”

As a Terran, I honestly can’t even imagine doing something like that. Much less complaining if I can’t get higher than D2 doing it. Even still, would be going on the forums on a daily basis crying about how I somehow deserve even more.

2 Likes
38

Just wait until what he has to say when he plays against a M1 terran.

39

The bias here is absolutely hilarious. You say that queens are OP because zergs can make multiples of them? Just how plastered are you? If the queen were OP, you’d only have to make 1 - just like the BC.

You can cry when a zerg makes 1 queen, teleports it across the map, and kills a terran player who has turtled up with TWICE the resources invested into defense than the queen cost. That’s what the BC does. The worst case scenario is that the Terran is doesn’t outright win the game but goes into the mid game with complete and total map control and being totally impervious to all pre-spire aggression.

40

pls delete tactical jump and instead allow the bc to be instantly warped in

2 Likes