Terran has EMPS to deal with Vipers and Snipes to deal with any late game Zerg unit.
I play random and enjoy playing all 3 races at aprox Dia level. If you’ve nothing of substance to add, please leave.
Why am i not allowed to write when you’re allowed to open a whine topic every two days ?
True but the spells the Viper have are so impactful that it doesn’t matter. EMP lands? Go Consume an Evo or soemthing. No biggie.
Terran got a ton of Ghosts? Good thing Take Aim can be cancelled by damage and it has a cast time, meaning it’s an after the fact answer that isn’t even guaranteed.
Vipers are needed in ZvT but the rate at which they spam spells is stupid.
You’re not “allowed” because you’re making baseless, false assumptions, are detracting from the topic and are generally being salty as hell.
I don’t want that crap in my thread, go be that way in one of Playa’s or Batz’s thread and leave civil, rational discussion to those who can conduct themselves that way.
Thank you for understanding and have a good day.
2 EMPS are all it takes to put Vipers to no energy. I can understand they spam a good amount, but that is the point of vipers. They are units of attrition, they are meant to dismantle mech. If you do not press the attack against Zerg, then you face the risk of dealing with Vipers. The same thing could be said with Ghost. They EMP all energy units and they snipe all late game units for energy.
We’re just going to have to disagree here, I mean I understand that Vipers are integral for Zerg vs mech and I definitely don’t want to see Vipers turned into the new Infestors (moderately bad units)…but the rate at which Vipers can spam spells needs a reduction. There are a few ways to do this and my choice was to address consume as to leave the power of Abduct and Blinding Cloud alone and simply make Vipers take longer to regain their energy.
Everything you say is just driven by your own ladder frustration, and don’t represent any kind of actual balance problem, just you desire not to question yourself about your own play but use balance to excuse your mistakes. We can’t answer that because it’s simply “Nerf Terran/Zerg to the ground, make protoss invincible”.
Why don’t you provide ypour ladder games ? If you’re right, it will be obvious that the issues your claim are a problem…
I’ve provided dozens of replays? And again with the assumptions, the only thing I find frustrating about ladder is how everyone and their mother is cheesing due to how stagnant and obnoxious the new meta is in Diamond. Macro games are more rare than a unicorn right now.
If you refuse to act reasonably, I’m going to start flagging you in this thread for trolling because it’s clear you’re trying to illicit a reaction of some kind.
I’m perfectly aware of that fact. Although as some forum users would say “just wall off your main and dont be greedy”.
I’m just using the same logic that pervert pillars favour one race and thus must be gone applied to chokes at the nat, they hurt one race the most and thus must be removed.
Also, the cost to locusts is just ridiculous. Timed units having a cost is simply obscene, especially ones that cannot defend themselves without them. If SH are such a problem, redesign them entirely, don’t just make them obscenely expensive to fire. The difference with interceptors is that they are permanent and come back to the carrier. Locusts are not. So to get rid of them, an entire redesign must happen.
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The difference is that Overlords can fly to dead space which every single base has without dying and having to do that doesn’t make you hyper vulnerable to cheese.
In PvZ specifically, if you do not wall, a 12 pool is basically auto win. You either outright lose the game or you’re dealt so much economic damage that you’ll still lose the game.
So it’s a false equivalency comparison, context means that you, as a Zerg player, can lose the pervy pillar with next to no ill effect whereas removing the ability to wall the nat with 3 buildings means Protoss can’t play the match up anymore and will be forced to 1 base allin every game.
The two have vastly different impacts.
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I know, I was just attacking the logic that it must be removed because it favours one race disproportionately. It is a logic that simply does not work because of context being a thing. To be honest, the threads asking for random zerg nerfs to pretty much anything followed by asking to remove another zerg related thing that didn’t even cross the mind to be any sort of problematic have ended up creating quite a bit of backlash. What is next… It has come to a point that there is a petition to remove something that is not even that important in terms of balance but more than anything nice to have, say more quality of life than anything else. Why remove those? If the overlord pervert pillar is unnecessary, why not just leave it there? It is simply nice to have.
Also, there are necessities for the overlord pervert pillar that are more subtle. They are not only for scouting tech, but also early army move outs and similar without having to endanger many overlords in the early game to cover many paths. And to be honest with you, I don’t like the situation this is looking at of removing zerg quality of life features simply because they are zerg features.
To finish, the things you propose are one of the patches that I’d be more in favor of removing one or two little things (pervert pillars because of the reasons I said and SH because attaching a price to non-permanent units is ridiculous design philosophy). Imagine paying 150 minerals just to push back an army. Like, sure the price tag would work in the situation of constant siege, but would invalidate many many uses that SH have. Which would call for a redisign rather than a change. I wouldn’t be opposed to SH redesign, but sticking a cost on locusts is not a solution.
Why remove the pervy pillar? Because it gives unfair advantage for no valid reason. Zerg don’t need it, they’ve just grown accustomed to it. It’s a left over from a different time.
I cannot believe that, from all the things, pervert pillars are something to look at for advantages or disadvantages. It is just another excuse to cry about zerg at this point. Another drop of water in the ocean of crying. What is next?
Anyways, it is extremely improbable that they are going anywhere anytime soon. So well, deal with all that unfair advantage that surely affect winrates massively.
That’s a great non-answer. I’m going to end this here because I do not respect that kind of crap and find myself wanting to chew you out a little but realize that’s really out of line given the nature of this discussion and need to take a small break to reorientation myself.
Please don’t give non-answers, they’re a disservice to everyone, especially yourself…and realize that me being not impressed has less to do with you and more to do with another user who has been trying to get under my skin.
As to the actual topic, if we’ve established that the pervy pillar isn’t needed then why is it kept? The premise of keeping it because we can is short sighted and silly when it provides race advantage that simply isn’t needed.
sry DankTemplar but this is not true.
Protoss can currently take his 2Base very safely in PvZ.
compare it to T. T makes his first wall in the main. in a 12 pool T is forced to cancel the 2Base and has to build units. P does not, P is able to close a wall of at 2 base vs. 12pool.
with an open base in the nat. P has to build his first wall in the main. build units and can then take his 2 base at 12pool.
what i find brazen is that when i go frist pool (16, actually a safe opner) my lings still can’t stop a cannon rush. but a toss easy can take his 2 base safely against a 12pool.
and in normal play p has to build def units to secure his bases.
No, 12 pool arrives before the wall finishes UNLESS you don’t open Gateway Gas Nexus, then you can full wall with a delayed nat.
If you 12 pool and you can’t stop a cannon rush, that’s purely l2p. You’ll have lings out before the cannon finishes.
It’s a dumb, anti meta cheese build Zerg have in ZvP, one I enjoy exploiting in my ZvP games when I play Zerg.
I think you misunderstood me.
With 12Pool I can stop a cannon rush, but I can’t do any more damage on Toss.
But I also said 16 pool. 16 Pool Frist is a safe opener vs. T.
But you can forget it. 1 hatch block. 2 cannon is faster than ling at 16pool.
But if 12Pool is a safe macro opener for you it is ok for me it is not a marco opener.
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I definitely misunderstood you.
The trick to dealing with this problem of Protoss cannons is solved mostly by patrolling an overlord by your nat. This will let you know if there’s a sneaky probe trying to plop down a pylon and 2 cannons…which is also something I do (less often now since in Diamond, this opener can get you killed).
If you go 16 pool, just make sure you have vision of your nat as it builds.
Is this on Zen LE? That map has so many things wrong with it.