How about you take your own advice for a change? I merely explain that strats at plat level are much different than the same strats at GM level and you immediately freak out because apparently i just said “only GM opinions matter”.
If you can’t even listen to others without exagerating everything they say then i won’t even waste my time trying to explain something simple to someone who just refuses to understand.
I seriously don’t see why we should factor in the tech lab snipe issue when thinking about stim timing. Ever since I’ve learned to put my barrack that will research stim (or starport that will give it’s add-on to it for that purpose) at the back of my base and close to SCV lines for faster repair I’ve never gotten it sniped in 50+ recent TvPs. It’s a simple fix with very little trade-off (swap time between starport and barracks becomes a tad longer - maybe by 5 seconds - compared to having the 1-1-1 in a straight vertical line). The spawn location issue means that this placement becomes an absolute necessity 50% of the time but is still more safe 100% of the time, so personally I just do it all the time and I don’t see why everyone couldn’t do the same (or am I missing something?).
Finnally, warp prism get nerfed, i like this patch!
(with 4s warp-ins, game constantly goes into a sudden death, i think that’s why even pro-terran players blaming their loss against lower MMR protoss. )
stim change is good for defence, just like warp gate research changes.
ghost change is a good news for terran late game when against HT or infersor.
according to aligulac, tvz is somewhat weak for serval month, but for the top tier, especially serral, the best zerg, didn’t show dominant in this competition. for lower tier, thanks to MECH, our ladder player could also survive ![:slight_smile:](https://d212vo0owly06i.cloudfront.net/en/sc2/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
so i think these two change is not a bad news for pro-gamer.
for tvp, i think fast 3rd base is available, that would be cool for macro terran players. Additionally i hope balance team find a way for protoss to fight against mass battle cruiser, and buff liberator +5 would be nice for tvp mid & late game tactics, that’s my opinion.
for pvz changes, i’m not sure, maybe carrier & infersor is not enough to balance pvz late game?
There are a few ways to address this, such as improving Zerg early-game scouting or weakening some of Protoss’ early-game options. For the first iteration of the testing tab, however, we’d like to try a more experimental change intended to reinforce the concept of defender’s advantage in all Protoss matchups.
Is there anyone at blizzard that truly believes this is a scouting issue? Scouting the attack is easy. Defending, even once scouted, is not. Zerg can choose to go quick overlord speed, where if researched, gives a zerg no excuse not to scout an early push. I can’t even believe the balance team thinks that scouting is the real issue. Early push strength, and ease of execution are the real problems surrounding this imbalance. Further, the real problem at the heart of Starcraft 2 balance are the builds which are extremely easy to execute and more powerful/viable than most strategies/builds.
No one knows hell like a Diamond zerg player - scouting a protoss push a full 4 minutes before it hits, preparing their absolute best to defend it, and getting steam rolled by a protoss A-moving an Immortal/Zealot/Archon army. The zerg doesn’t even have any units that have micro-ability at that stage of the game to counter the opponents lack of apm. Then to get cannon rushed a game after. The problem is, your game flat out isn’t fun to play as a zerg. Balance aside, the zerg race feels like getting punched in the face repeatedly. When you win a game, you don’t feel as though you’ve bested your opponent, but rather you took so many punches that your opponent literally got tired of punching. The way the game is played currently, I don’t know why anyone would want to play zerg. Blizzard, have some self-respect and fix the dumpster fire that is zerg. Please, I seriously don’t want to have to switch to Protoss or Terrain, but I don’t know how many games of this race I can keep playing. Don’t balance zerg, make zerg a fun race to play again.
Lol make chrono 25 mana and halved the chrono duration so that it takes them twice the attention to macro . Make Gates not auto again haha ! like how terran had to swap add ons for attention. Since their micro is a bit more easier macro should be harder . (haha) But it will never happen.
Sori shots fired but you guys have to understand Blizz designed the toss for crippled players that is why you will never win with a toss with the same apm unless he is stupid enough to A move a sieged location and has (no brain )sori knowledge and experience . That is why its normal to lose against a toss lower than u in mmr that is normal why because PvZ takes a lot of skill from a toss player that mmr lower is against zerg .
Cannon rush has been there since broodwar if you basically have a hard time countering it its probably best not to whine and just learn to defend it the actual thing you guys dont notice is a Zerg had to wait for pool ánd queen so its + seconds pool and queen to have an eco boost for queens to inject and a Terran needs rax and upgrade that cc to orbital so if either a toss cannon rushes your eco boost mechanic as a race is delayed more and he basically chrono from the start of the game for eco boost with out the need of RAX an orbital a pool and a queen toss gets free Eco Boost mana from nexus That's'what you dont see and thats what make cannon rush OP in this meta since eco boost from toss is available from the start of the game. From a crazy perspective if that was the case a zerg should start with a queen a terran should start with an orbital but that would change everything. Nexus should start from zero energy.Lul alt account ? I was 5300 on my main…
I didn’t exaggerate anything you said. I merely took what you said to its logical conclusion.
Thats the funniest part about all of this. He claims cannon rushes are happening all over the place. I’ve watched probably over a thousand games on various GM streamers (at least 2 that main protoss in Rotti and inControl) and very rarely do they ever face a cannon rush.
He also claimed all GMs stick to one strat…which is just laughably false.
I think he unfortunately fell victim to the “I must be right at any cost” syndrome. Which eventually required him to just straight up lie to still believe what he was saying.
Solution: Cannons need “Warp Conduit” pylons
This guy… if I ever die, this guy will definitely go in the column of… thank god. Anything has to be better than living with this guy. Wherever you’re going, I’ll take the other option.
Watched thousands of GM games, yet… absolutely oblivious to who I am or that I do the same strat, despite playing these guys all the time. Anytime I tune in afterwards, to the aforementioned, they’re like yeah… he does it every game.
It’s no secret I do the same build. The only secret is supposed to be “who actually created it.” It’s not a shameful thing to me. If you can get top 10 GM while doing the same build every game, for years, while not using a barcode… then it’s probably pretty good.
I try to play macro games. I try to create builds that are indifferent/optimal. That’s nothing to be shunned. The alternative that people use is relying on amounts of luck. They’re trying to incorporate poker. When I win a game, I’d rather know I didn’t just get lucky, because the other guy was caught with his pants down.
Idra was the same way. Only difference… he wasn’t coming up with his own builds. Any noobs ever hate on him for it? “Man… I’d like him more if he was more honorable and would all-in people!” It’s like… yeah… what wouldn’t bother a person that biased.
Your belief that I quit playing this game due to something that “rarely ever happens” is so stupid. Everything you say is a joke. You tout your stupid dozen counters claim, while also saying “take it easy on me. I never actually play the game.” That’s the kind of person you are. A joke.
The only liar here is you. Heck, one of the streamers you mentioned, does a cannon rush EVERY GAME against Zerg. Jesus christ. You can’t make this stuff up. You watch a guy do a cannon rush every game, against a race that is second best at defending it… yet… such a freaking leap to believe it happens against Toss.
Cannon rushing happens on EU about as much as a person blinks. People who do it EVERY SINGLE GAME: KingCobra, TheMusZero, Grimreaper, Hawk, and Milka (at least vs me so far). And I’ve only played on EU for a month. I haven’t got the chance to play everyone/learn who also does it every game.
Played against Maxpax. Oh, let’s see what he’s going to do… cannon rush. Wow… what a creative guy. Checked his match history, he usually cannon rushes, too.
EU is cannon rushes and barcodes. And, even if that weren’t the case… the strat still should have been nerfed years ago. What f’ing difference would it make, if it makes people quit playing/rage across the universe? You have no points. You have no facts. I’m skeptical that you even have a brain.
Anyone who has played any amount of SC 2 whatsoever knows a guy who cannon rushes vs you once in P vs P is far more likely to only use that build than otherwise. 1) It’s the best build. 2) They often don’t know how to actually make units.
And i cant believe it because u could be lying
My two cents: I mostly just agree with BeastyQT, I really dislike the warp prism change and putting that as an upgrade with speed I think is kind of weird…
I think EMP is already very powerful and shouldn’t be buffed either…High Templer’s Feedback is used to counter the ghost right but feedback is a single target spell…If T has a decent amount of ghosts its like kind of ridiculous that one spell can like drain all spell energy from infestors or HT’s and take away all shields from Protoss units and yeah, doesnt really seem too fair… and the ghosts can cloak and protoss has limited detection that terran can constantly try to snipe if they choose to.
Umm…you doing the same strat isn’t the same as everyone doing the same strat (which is what you said)…thats kind of the point. Just because someone cannon rushes against you doesn’t mean they cannon rush against everyone. Looking at their match history doesn’t tell you what strat they used…
Therefore, your personal experience tells us nothing about either how common nor how viable cannon rushing is.
Omg man. What Chernobyl waste land were you spawned from? You got like 5 eyes or anything cool to go along with the deficits?
Oh my god. Please ban this guy. “Looking at one’s match history doesn’t tell you what strat they use.” Omfg. I have to also spell out to you that I looked at their build orders to verify this? Really? Really?? I also have yet to say it’s common for someone to use the same build, in general.
The people who mostly do the same build are… cannon rushers, though. Have you heard of Florencio? Have you heard of Printf? Have you heard of Weedamins? Have you heard of GrimReaper? Etc, etc, etc.
It’s just so funny how ridiculous some people are. Guy is trying to give me grief for using the same build every game, when I’m trying to do the equivalent of “solving a game,” and creating builds that the freaking streamer he watches uses… and then the other streamer… oh… he does the same freaking build every game against Zerg. And to make matters more comical, it’s a freaking cannon rush. Idiocracy has nothing on our world.
Can’t hate on other people cause they’re not Playa. Can’t give Playa credit cause he’s not them. F’ing stupid. Shut up.
I am not sure what race you play, but I do not see Cannon Rushes much… and when I do see them the player doing it usually loses. As long as you scout well enough, either you stop it in time or you can find ways of dealing with it. Stopping it means taking ALL workers and kill the cannons before they finish, or bring a few workers and kill the probe before the pylon is done if possible.
As a Zerg player I usually make 6 early lings, I use them to test the opponents defense, because they might be greedy and go for an early expansion, too heavy on economy, early air or something like that. Or whatever the reason is they might be open to these early lings. Cannons is the same… a high level player will use them, because they are an effective way of punishing unsustainable openings. You need a balance of defense and offense.
Before I did the early lings, I would just stop the attack with Queens and lings. Of course, it is easier to deal with as Zerg so there is that, but Terran has tanks and other units to remove them pretty fast. If they get inside the base… well its on you.
I play Toss. And if Scarlett is complaining about this strategy, as a Zerg, then it’s probably not much easier to stop as a Zerg.
To wrap up how absurd this rhetoric has been, from a few, in the it’s cool and never happens camp… The guy who was talking about how he watches Rotti and man he rarely ever faces a cannon rush.
Well, I swear to god. First time I tuned into Rotti’s stream tonight, 1 second later, he made a forge. After about 3 seconds, I was like… he must be playing against someone who he knows is also a cannon rusher.
Sure enough, he was playing vs a cannon rusher. Add another EU guy to the list who only cannon rushes: “Genesis.” If everyone keeps acting stupid, maybe in a few years 80% of Toss players in GM will only cannon rush. Awesome.
It doesn’t end there. Rotti’s opponent had 88 APM. Yes, his opponent was GM. No, the joke doesn’t end there, either. Naniwa was in the chat talking about how much he hates cannon rushers and playing vs it. He also commented that this Genesis guy has stolen so many of his points.
Naniwa went on to say he consulted the “cannon council” and Printf told him to 12 gate. The same printf that loses to cannon rushes, himself, left and right. 12 gate doesn’t even make sense, as a 13 gate is just as fast.
This whole thing is just a bunch of middle fingers being given to everyone who plays. A big “we don’t care how stupid the game is or how broken it is, as long as it’s not taking over the pro scene. God forbid our 5 players in the world don’t trump the 8 billion others.”
Slavery isn’t wrong, either, until 200 years go by and someone is like, eh… maybe it’s been long enough. Everything is cool until it isn’t. Nothing to see here, just another 80 APM player guy that has bamboozled a top GM player.
If players are trying to hard counter your cheese build, yet they always have a 60% win rate, as a floor, then… I dunno man. Maybe it’s a strategy that is > 55%, which is what Blizzard is supposed to consider unacceptable.
Stop with the stupid double standards. It is nails against a chalkboard. Just like I can’t have any builds because I don’t stream. It’s not a build until a streamer does it. Wardi build this, Tasteless build that. A bunch of monkeys.
You’d save yourself a lot of wasted time if you just actually talked instead of mindlessly trying to insult me lol.
I forgot you could look at build orders, but regardless your experience is still anecdotal. You’ve shared nothing here that is anything but anecdotal, and until you do your opinion is meaningless.
Anyone want to try to top this is in being dense? I doubt a single one of you in SC 2, even if trolling, can do it. I can type 140+ WPM. Even got a video on my youtube of such. It doesn’t take enough of my time to give out an ounce of what you more than deserve.
Anyone else in this forum forget that you can look at build orders? Anyone else who doesn’t know trivial things, yet knows dozens of counters to things top GMs scratch their heads over? Show of hands. Antisora needs a peer.
Everyone’s experience in GM is just anecdotal. Take 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 and what do you get? Zero. Antisora math.
I love people who use big words and set up impossible standards to satisfy. “Hey guys… where’s the empirical evidence.” How about this one… show me the empirical evidence behind ANYTHING being OP in the history of the game that was nerfed.
“Ugh… well you see playa… stop insulting me. I don’t deserve this.” GG no re. Be quiet. I see you replying. Stop. Leave Brittney alone. Leave your home, you’re drunk.
You literally cannot make it 2 sentences without throwing out an insult. Its like a psychological need for you lol.
You get 5. How many games are played at GM level a day do you think? A few thousand? 10,000 plus? So maybe half a million games in a month? And you think 5 is enough?
Empirical isn’t a big word. The fact that you think it is…doesn’t speak highly of you. It is a simple word. It means enough data not biased by personal opinion.
Your opinion is 1 data point. Out of thousands. thats why its irrelevant. Anyone who knows anything about the study of data will tell you the same thing.
Lol…you thought I cared that you were insulting me? I was pointing it out because I find it amusing…don’t mistake the mere mention of your insults with me actually being affected by them. The few minor, insignificant points you do make are buried so heavily in a sea of meaningless insults as to render them useless. You can continue…they’re just pointless. And actively distract from your argument.
But honestly based on your responses I don’t think you care about your argument. You just care about being right. Your attempt to belittle those that disagree with you just demonstrates an inability to rationally discuss the subject. Its a sign of immaturity, and one you could easily mask by just stopping lol.
Umm…no? Do you think saying that would be impactful somehow…??? Lol.
EDIT: DON’T REPLY!! Did that make you stop your reply? Didn’t think so…lmao.
If this is what the future holds, if MITs prediction of 50% of children having autism within like the next 10 years is true… does anyone really want to live here?
This is crazy. If I said I felt like I was talking to a brick wall, this guy would post a picture of himself to prove he wasn’t a brick wall. How do you get them to just stop? Has anyone ever convinced someone like this that they need to just stop while they’re behind?
You win. I hope to god I never run into antisora on the ladder. Not worthy. Holy smokes. What now… Yada, yada, yada. Remember to have your clothes on before posting picture.