So, in many cases, a lot of us probably don’t even remember how it felt leveling some of our favorite commanders from level 1 to level 15. But I wanted to try and get a general survey on which commanders have the most arduous process of leveling to max. Put another way, which commanders are weakest or the least fun to play at low levels before they have all their stuff?
Personally, I’ve been finding Stetmann and Alarak a chore to level to 15, which is why they remain the only two commanders I haven’t maxed out yet, but I can think of other commanders who felt completely different before unlocking certain upgrades: Karax before getting Kalai Ingenuity, some of the very early levels of Han and Horner were a bit of a pain…
What do you all think? Which commanders are the biggest pain to level up?
Note: this isn’t actually a real complaint, the time investment to get a commander to 15 isn’t actually that long, I was just curious to get peoples’ impressions.
3 Likes
Karax is a nightmare until you get the instant pylons/towers.
Kerrigen felt awful until i got the max gas cost reduction mastery.
Fenix felt awful without the special tech building discounts he gets during leveling.
Artanis always felt lame but especially without the free 200 pop upgrade.
7 Likes
Oh right, I forgot about Fenix when he still had a tech tree and his buildings weren’t discounted.
Karax was definitely most annoying until lvl 11, and then stetmann was introduced…
While levelling he always felt like driving around with a pulled handbreak, haven’t touched him since hitting lvl 15 and potentially will never again. Maybe you need Super Gary first, before he feels like being able to carry his own weight, but then, if so, that’s just fail design in my eyes.
Won’t even start about stetelites’ spread, squishyness…
2 Likes
I’ve been told that Stetmann is one of the stronger commanders post level 15 with Super Gary, but you wouldn’t know it while leveling him up, he feels like a lot of work for little reward compared to a lot of other commanders.
2 Likes
I’d say Stetmann or Karax.
Am I the only one who had relatively little trouble leveling Stetmann? ![:confused:](https://d212vo0owly06i.cloudfront.net/en/sc2/images/emoji/twitter/confused.png?v=6" ":confused:")
Maybe it’s got something to do with the fact that I never once took him into a brutal mission, but even on Hard, I had some smooth sailing leveling him up. After getting over his mechanics, anyway, which to me are weird even for a Zerg admittedly. And yes, I can fight even off the stetzones. I needed to retreat to them often, but leaving them never broke me.
IMO, Karax has the worst leveling process. His gameplay seems to revolve around instant cannons/pylons, but you don’t get that until around level 10 or so. Sure, you can play with his army too, and those who can make that work do so very well, but said army is nevertheless extremely expensive, to a fault as far as I’m concerned.
2 Likes
Stetman is terrible before Super Gary. He basically has to be played like a defense commander because if you’re ever forced to engage outside a stetellite field you just get wiped regardless of how strong your army is. Once you get the “faster stetellite cooldown based on hive status” he gets more playable, but it’s still a pain. Super Gary makes everything so much better.
I also definitely remember that pre-auto warpin Karax was a pain to play.
A friend of mine has been complaining about levelling Kerrigan, she claims that you just never have any energy until you get the “faster energy regen” powerset. I recall a similar issue with Vorazun where her early game is ridiculously garbage until you get the “initial spear of adun” energy powerset and thus can summon the immediate dark pylon.
I also remember that Zagara was very hard to level, but it was so long ago that I don’t remember why.
1 Like
Karax for sure. Stetmann gets a lot of hate because not having Super Gary, but I didn’t find it that hard. I think the problem is that Super Gary basically helps alleviate all the things that make Stetmann hard, like the constant stetillite spread and lack of early anti-air and global vision over instant telepeportationizing. That said.
Yeah, I feel like this bonus should come sooner. Once you have this, you can totally do it without Super Gary, they deploy fast enough to plant them mid-fight no problem. You just need enough of them that it’s not a slow crawl across the map a millimeter at a time.
That said, even having to spend half my time out of stetzones, I practically soloed L&L by sheer outpacing of my ally with a level 1 stetmann; his units are really strong even as it is.
2 Likes
Stetmann is the worst, used to be Karax. Both of which are really bad when leveling.
6 Likes
Dunno in the current state how would it be to lvl all of them.
But I remember having hard times with Swann, Alarak, Fenix and Stetman. But the 3 first were when I was rather inexperienced and new, especially with the 2 first.
On the other hand I carried many games as Tychus and Zeratul in the same process.
In the particular case of Stet I think being able to evolve into Super Gary with the Lair instead of Hive would help him a lot.
1 Like
Another vote for Karax I think he’s the only one I had problems leveling up.
1 Like
Level 1 Stetmann is much better than level 1 Karax.
- Stetmann at least has Hydralisks, which are very versatile and much cheaper than Karax’ units. He also has Stetalites to heal his Hydralisks, and the normal Gary to support.
- Karax, in meanwhile, doesn’t have instant Pylons and Cannon, doesn’t have upgrades to get more energy for spells. And his units are extremely extremely expensive, and doesn’t have any early units that are as versatile as Hydralisks. His repair beam is way worse than Stetalites.
5 Likes
Blizzard really screwed up with Stettman as far as delaying Super Garry to level 15.
Stettman before lvl15 was okay but with Super Garry he is phenomenal and ultra fun.
I use the evolution speed masteries for fast expansion and teching so i rush Super Garry like a madman and have a fantastic time playing.
3 Likes
Not to mention he doesn’t actually have the beam at level 1.
I think that Stetmann’s powergain over the 15 levels is greater than Karax’s, but that’s just because fully leveled Stetmann is just vastly stronger than fully leveled Karax.
2 Likes
Some mentioned above were definitely a bit tougher. Overall though, I actually really enjoy the process. Gives you lots of time to understand the major mechanic and design of units.
I enjoy taking this really brief time (8hours tops for even the hardest to level), to understand the commander. Often by 15 with mastery, I already have a good idea how I want to approach a more optimal set up and build order (even if a level 15 bonus changes everything).
I heard Swann is hell to level. I only tried it for a bit (my Swann isn’t lvl 15) but it was odd having to actually build supply depots. Raynor calls 'em down,.
1 Like
Laughs in zagara without swarmlings, stukov with only 4 troopers per bunker, and nova without nuke/holo decoy/bonus damage from switching modes/ravens with only 1 ability charge.
2 Likes
I don’t agree that karax has the worst leveling process anymore. You really don’t need to cannon karax, and with the ravamp unit costs got cut from 150%->130%. Sure you may have to play a little more passively since your immortals are more expensive, but you can make up for that with spear.
3 Likes
Zagara is rough, but her hero and eventually free banes are still pretty solid. Not to mention abberations.
Stukov, you should just always go mech pre lvl. 14. Actually, since the bunker nerf, you should just always go mech in general.
Nova, I don’t see how any of those are relevant problems. The only real issue is Nova pre superstim. Otherwise, Nova is possibly the easiest to level of all.
1 Like