Remove collossus AOE attack, make it a spell, give them the wrathwalker attack so they can shoot back at vikings, if not cost-effectively, and then give them some sort of way to do detection to counter-value the AOE spell. maybe also give them a spell that makes target unit immune to ranged attacks for 1 second, so a group of collosi can “parry” viking volleys if you know which one they’ll be a-move attacking & have enough energy.
bam, now protoss has detection and reliable AOE.
But protoss has both those things already.
Separately, no.
that’s cool, from what do they have those things?
From the observer, the best detection unit in the game, and from the colossus, High Templar and disruptor.
It is a useless change.
Wrathwalkers have an attack range of 10 and a movement speed of 2 (Vikings have almost double the speed, btw), good luck kiting multiple low-cost flying units with expensive and slow-moving ones.
On top of that, why would the Terran opponent be making any Vikings when Wrathwalkers don’t pose any threat to their bio?
“On top of that, why would the Terran opponent be making any Vikings when Wrathwalkers don’t pose any threat to their bio?”
I almost included a part of giving colossus their AOE attack back as a spell you can manually target but they have templar, and if the colossus can micro-shield a target then you can have a templar walk forward to storm a bioball and shield it against snipes so I left it out
Why did the devs make infantry, and then add mech that makes them useless?
They’re supposed to be a counterpart to tank.
Except a tank is fragile and useless if they’re not set up some distances away. With stim and a good number I can do a run on a couple of tanks (not that they’re balanced), even with opposing infantry.
A colossus has 350 health. Why anyone would think a 350 health tank is balanced is beyond me, regardless of it being more expensive.
They’re subject to minor whittling from Vikings, pitiful anti-air units that cannot stand up to Tempests, or even Mutalisks without kiting.
“My super tank is correspondigly more expensive”. Why do you have a super tank?
Ok, but better remove entire Collossus, I don’t think they should exist in the first place.
As I’ve mentioned many times before, Reapers, Colossi, and Banelings were originally meant to demonstrate some of SC2’s new terrain mechanics - the high-ground / low-ground improvement.
They needed something new to show off, because Hydralisks, Zealots, and Marines were already present in StarCraft 1.
They are more a counterpart to thors and ultralisks. The most expensive and bulkiest ground unit of the faction.
Oracles can’t shoot air units and protoss don’t have mutalisks.
Thors are primarily anti-air. A colossus is a dedicated anti-infantry walker that just happens to have a near comparable health pool. It’s range can be upgraded.
Thors don’t do spash damage against infantry. A thor could assist against small numbers of infantry.
They only really do well against infantry when amassed in large numbers, potentially overpowering marines.
Or a pitiful number of hydralisks already mopped up by infantry.
Sorry, I meant Tempest.
Colossus light damage bonus means that, at my level (d3-d2), I can’t personally see making marines against Toss - for a straight up fight, I mean.
The same can’t be said against Tanks. Tank gets a +heavy armor damage bonus. It’s reasonable early game to invest in a reactor on third barracks and expect to overpower an attack that includes a couple tanks.
Against Toss, on the infantry side, I’d have to invest gas in Mauraders. Which I’d probably have to anyway if I expect to deal with Stalkers.
Meanwhile, Toss can throw minerals into Zealots, and I’d have to invest gas in a dedicated factory going up to produce Hellbats, a unit that would be unfathomable against anything else in the Toss arsenal.
In anything other than a lucky assault on their second base, Toss would bounce and snipe them.
All three (thor, colossi and ultralisks ) are 300 minerals 200 gas and 6 supply. They have different rolles in their respective faction because the factions have different needs. They all have their strength and weaknesses and need other parts of the roster to fill it for them.
And protoss have to throw more gas at the robotics bay and colossi to deal with marines. Plus they need a fleet beacon if they want to throw in tempests against vikings which can be reactored so protoss needs to invest in more production to keep up.
The question is if you remove colossus AoE, why would protoss even bother making them? What role would they fill for the roster.
I don’t know why are you emphasizing costs over roles.
I can’t see that it makes any kind of point at all, except to be obstinate.
If I had a more expensive tank, it would still be a tank.
If I had a specialized anti-light infantry tank on legs, it would still be more comparable to a tank, even if it was more expensive.
Ultralisks are crap until they are upgraded, then they become mostly broken.
Their cost doesn’t tell you much of anything, except that they’re a waste of resources before they’re upgraded.
Without a sale on one, Milk costs the same as Pizza. Is Milk Pizza? Suppose they have a similiar weight?
Do you gain special insight thereby? Apart from the low efficiency cost of milk outside corporate conglomerates I mean.
Apples and oranges are roughly the same size. I suppose they’re both fruit, no?
Platitudes about factions having reputed strengths and weaknesses says nothing at all.
If you have three different units with the same cost, it does not imply that it is “because the factions have different needs.”
If anything it implies the devs engaged in cookie cutting.
Thors are moronic units. You put your anti air on the ground where it can get butchered by Zerglings and Immortals
They have a splash attack thats poor against anything but mopping up mutas.
The “role they fill” is to do their job poorly. A couple can tie up a few tempests after lower range Vikings are dead and you attack bases with marines.
They aren’t even good meat shields, Zerglings or even just roaches can kill them . Try killing an Ultra with Zerglings.
Because colossi aren’t equivalent to tanks in role and not in tech either.
Thors are moronic units. You put your anti air on the ground where it can get butchered by Zerglings and Immortals
Colossi are a moronic unit, you make an anti light specialist at the end of a techline that only has basic anti air and that is vuenrable to air and ground to be torn apart by corruptors and vikings and thors.
Two questions for you.
What should the colossi be good for?
Why is it unreasonable to make hellbats against zealots and suddenly reasonable to make colossi against marines?
Try killing a brood lord with colossi.
They’re both long-range ground killers, just that the tank is better at killing armor.
Except of course against Immortals… Because I guess a special exception should be carved out for Toss supremacy…
Thors need ground defense against Brood Lords.
Why is it unreasonable to make Hellbats against Zealots?
Because it’s the only example of a use for Hellbats against Toss, and it comes out of a factory.
Factories are a second tier building that costs gas. Zealots come out of Gateways (T1).
We could have just kept them in Barracks. You don’t make yours, I won’t make mine. Balanced. Just throw out the gas cost of firebats.
While you don’t really want Hellbats against Roaches, it’s at least a reasonable mix to have a few around when roaches are still in low numbers.
They at least make sense against Zerg, even if not much beyond the early game. Against Toss they’re specialists.