Man it is so stupid, you micro the f to def, against a guy with 40 apm (you have more than 3 times his apm, real not spam).
After you def he is miles ahead, more bases, more tech, more workers.
And you fk play 20 min, Toss playing with you and spewing some toxic sh that he is so skilled and you suck.
What the hell is this really??
Itās the reality of ladder in lower leagues sadly. I already told you to set up parental controls if you donāt want to deal with this kind of behaviour. Have you done this ? If not do it.
About cannon rush - defence depends on race. I play terran so for me defence against it is rather simple - rushing to cyclone. Cyclone is out - cannon rush is over, then they might add some gate/robo or stargate pressure so i build a bunker and then send a medivac with 3 hellions or widow mines to equalize eco.
If you play protoss the only advice i can give you is to quickly build defensive forge, if you play zerg - send a drone a build proxy hatch on his natural - this way he is forced to put defensive cannons in his base rather than your natural. Good luck.
I know how to def a canon rush, if the guy does not have a lot experience it is easy.
But you come a cross with these guys who only canon rush for YEARS, they have no idea how to play normal but they know how to canon rush very good with minimum resources on the back expand and make workers like crazy and go to skytoss.
While you are behind eco, bases, tech as you defended the canon rush you expanded in the natural very late, you have almost zero chance of wining.
Donāt tell me stories, Iāve seen it in very top play cannon rush defense, and the defender is miles behind.
It it stupid, it makes the whole design of the game go to waste.
Your defense was, definitionally, not āperfectā, then.
Theyāre bad people and you should be more willing to quick-mute these sorts of players.
Me too, dozens of times; usually either one of the players just forfeits by the 4 minute mark or the game state is even or defender-favoured.
Now, that cannon rushes are dumb, Iāll happily agree with that. I donāt think theyāre fun. But I also donāt think eg. proxy Rax nor 12~14 pools are fun; and I canāt think of a reasonable way to stop some of those without creating a frustrating rule that prevents other kinds of more interesting or āfairā play.
It is far easier to defend most times, as I said before, people who canon rush all the time, and eco like crazy behind it, if you donāt kill him completely after the defense, there is no way, believe me I tried, I killed 2 hidden expansions, and his 4th.
Ok, so I am watching my reply, and literaly I donāt know what I couldāve done anything substantially better, (Well maybe if I had MH, but I DONāT)
The problem seem to be that my natural is too late, no matter how the defense would be.
(Terranās eco starts slowest in the game, if you delay it significantly any further, Toss economy just sky rockets in comparison, everyone knows that)
Only if theyre actually, you know, building their economy rather than investing a bunch of resources in a failed all-in.
If the protoss invests minimum resources, and delays the terra natural expansion, it is not a fail at all.
Iād have to look at your replay to really tell. Part of it is how early you scout the rush, part of it is their placement of the cannons and pylons. Thereās a lot you can do vs cannon rushing though, both holding and doing a good cannon rush is an art, though not many do them well.
Zerg I go 12 pool it does delay economy to small degree but u donāt need pulle any drones since lings be out before he can drop first cannon.
I go 12 pool for any toss or random.
Well then they just went for early aggression to punish your early greed. Why should you expect to be able to come out ahead even with a strong defense? Your best case there is generally maintaining the status quo.
Taking a natural expansion after barracks is greed, what the hell are you talking about?
So Toss is always ahead in eco, by this logic I should be 1 Terran base vs 3 base Toss??
For your information, Cannon Rushing is not to punish Greed!
And investing minimal resources isnt cannon rushing. The whole point is its an all-in because thats the only way to get cannons over there in time.
Yes, cannons shooting your 2 supplies and barracks, while you try to repair these 3 buildings and getting your tank at the same time is f Cannon Rush.
And No it doesnāt have to be an all in, (the all ins are much easier to win the game after the defense), 1 pylon 2-3 cannons are enough, and the time you are spending repairing, not getting your natural exp, yes it gets the toss miles ahead.
Thatās the worst thing, cannon rush usually leads to a boring game because usually they turtle after failing the rush. one thing you can do is proxy stargate if you manage to stop it early.
Thatās the safest way, even if you donāt start making lings, you can start making queens and droning if you donāt see any nearby pylon, I have won many 2v2 games because of that, early pool and they do nothing for some minutes.
No, Iām sorry mate but I canāt agree with that. Cannon rushes have all-in variants sure, but they arenāt inherently all-in.
Historically weāve seen cannon rushes used to deny (particularly Zergās natural) a base in pro play. We see cannon rushes all the time on ladder that can be anywhere between one cannon thatās quickly transitioned out of (into macro play), to a contain variation thatās often used in tandem with proxy starports/robo plays, and sometimes (but rarely) hyper-dedicated all-in variants that are supposed to kill you.
There are some people who have been spamming cannon rushes on the ladder for years, some of them even streams(you might already know some of their names) they have been spamming same bs for years, their purpose is not winning, not improving, just triggering/tilting their opponents. To be honest i think these cannonrushers should be banned from playing 1v1 sc for good since their purpose of playing is no different from cheaters. They both have fun by making others feel bad.
And yeah as the OP mentioned, it takes 5 times more effort/apm for the defender than for the cannonrusher, literally in defending cr you make one mistake and you insta lose, and this is the part where these cannon rushers are having fun. Even though they lose, they just know that they suck d at this game, they know they wonāt improve at this game for the rest of their life, and the fact that their opponents, no matter how better they are, they have to micro their a ss off to defend their 50 apm bs, is where cannon rushers are having fun. It is so fun that even though they spam the same thing for years it is still fun in 2024.
what a terrible idea, bans for playing with the tools in a clearly off-putting edge case
if itās actually a big deal, increasing cannon build time by 5-10 seconds would be effective to stop it, vut thereās no way itās cheating to try snd win with a frustrating strategy - itās allowed, after all. itās been allowed for this lonf because the designers donāt think itās an actual problem.
so sorry that itās annoying but itās clearly not bad person behaviour - and I think itās fun enough to deal with rushes and the cannons are just another in the bucket.
Zerg just need spread creep from overlords from start of the game.