I am on the last batch of commanders to prestige and finally decided to finish upping Mensk to level 15 before prestiging him and …
Damned I have no idea what I am doing. For the others I felt confident switching to brutal early on (lvl 3-6 for most commanders). Currently lvl 13 with Mensk and I feel shaky even in hard.
I have heard several people mention he was maybe one of the best (funniest) commander to play with multiple possible play styles so clearly I just completely missed how I am supposed to play him.
For those who love to play him and feel confident with him (preferably people who feel confident they could level him up in P0 brutal early on) how do you play him and what’s so cool about him? Are there truly several different viable ways to do so? How much freedom do you have when choosing the royal guards you make if any?
Mengsk have Super powerful Panel abilities, Fun Royal Guards and useful as heck Earth Splitter Ordinance.
They are really hard to level up from low level, but once you get to level 7 with Wolves of War, you gain so much power (complimentary to level 5 with increased Mandate).
Someone need to convince me why Sky Fury are great. Their specialty as giant killers mediocre and their promotion abilities are as luke warm.
At least Emperor’s Shadow have useful utilities though they are hard to control.
He has one of if not the fastest growing economy of any of the CO’s once his first mastery is completed.
His Workers and Infantry are interchangable allowing for rapid mobile building either offensively or defensively. It also has the added benefit of if you lose a few workers you can instantly replace them.
He has a typical Terran army roster just modified a bit. Troopers are cheaper, build faster than Marines but are weaker unless given a weapon which costs minerals.
His Royal Guard units are powerful and don’t require upgrades but cost a lot of gas, which is fine because Troopers don’t cost any gas except to upgrade.
He has Earthshatter Ordinance which is straight up broken on certain maps.
His calldown abilities are all super strong, and more than make up for the fragility of his trooper army.
Basically to play Mengsk right you have to actually know how to macro and how to not throw your squishy units away. You also have to know the basic ins and outs of how produce Imperial Mandate which takes a couple missions to get used to.
Once you get his opening down, get his economy going fast and get lots of support flowing from his Observers, he becomes a steamroller that sort of drops off a bit in the late game since his army maxes out fast but is hard to max out with high quality troops with.
Spam troopers, support them with Royal Guard and support the whole thing with his calldowns.
If you’re level 5 or higher, rush a blimp and its upgrade for mandate. When you get your expansion, make another blimp and send them to your mineral lines. Having additional mandate makes the game much easier. Dropping bunkers can be useful, as it gives plenty of free units and supply. Also, Mengsk himself tells you what to do:
“We do what we must: unleash the Zerg”
The main problem I had when levelling Mengsk (technically still have, since I haven’t finished prestiging) is that the main solution to his big problem enemy comps is Emperor’s Shadows, but they don’t become a reliable solution to them until rank 3, which of course is locked behind lv15. Someone better than me could probably handle these before 15 on Brutal, but I always feel a bit like I’m getting carried. I personally wouldn’t recommend even attempting Brutal (solo queue) with him before at least lv5, preferably lv7.
As far as Royal Guards go, the only ones IMO that are questionable are Sky Furies, they are decent on Void Launch but you can achieve similar results with missile trooper spam, and everywhere else there is a different unit that is just better suited to the requirements.
Mengsk is indeed extremely flexible in terms of how many things he can do, but that’s pared with being quite inflexible with his macro. Basically, if you’re not hitting build orders and progressing though his tech tree very quickly, his performance is going to suffer badly.
There are nuances of build orders that people will argue over as being THE ONE TRUE WAY, but to simplify it, aim for these “benchmarks” (this is for pre-mastery too; it changes a bit once you can drop bunkers as soon as the game starts)
Supply Bunker
Grab 2 more workers, build a barracks
Use those three to build a CC at your xpac (if unguarded), at your main if it is
Around now you should have a bunker drop, either drop it to clear rocks, or drop it in the main and convert the soldiers to workers. Use them to build refin and saturate your main gasses
Add a 4th worker to the CC build team and build a factory, starport, and fusion core
Build a Witness
Start the mandate upgrade At the very latest, this upgrade should be started by the 6:30 mark. It’s possible to get it even faster, but at the absolute latest, 6:30
Build another witness, send it to your xpac.
There are other things you can slip in where possible, like Engineering Bays (I like to have two), an armory, and overall you’ll want a total of 4 CC’s. But don’t get any of those things if it means delaying getting the mandate upgrade - that is your top priority.
In terms of army (at least with P0), I like to go trooper-heavy (50 or more) and backed by 2-3 Aegis Guard, 4-6 Intercessors, 3 Witnesses, and then some enemy-comp-specific royal guards.
Tips and Tricks
Control group 1 should be your witnesses. If you like to use f2 (like I do), you can a-move your army, but then grab your witnesses and switch them to parked mode when before they float passed your front line. They have a huge radius of sight like this, providing detection and a very important 20% attack speed buff.
Control group 2 is your CC’s. Set the rally point to one of your Aegis Guards (who almost never die), and you’ll easily be able to reinforce your army continually once you get the drop pod upgrade. For this reason I always build at least 2 guards, no matter the enemy comp: they are a great rally point for your troopers.
Control group 3 is your royal guard production buildings (barracks, factory, starport). I don’t set the rally point to my guards because intercessors will zip over and pick up my rally guard, but you can experiment with whatever works for you.
Control group 4 is engineering bays. If you’re using troopers, weapon and armor upgrades are incredibly important. I have a much easier time remembering to do the upgrades if I have them on a hotkey.
Mengsk is one of the more difficult commanders to play. He’s got a lot of moving parts that can be hard to juggle, but once you learn his kit he’s got a huge toolbox. He probably has more ways to solve any particular problem than any other commander. Especially as I became a better player (not great, but better ), Mengsk quickly differentiated himself as having one of the most dynamic, option-filled kits in the game. When playing and winning as Mengsk, it really feels like PLAYING the game. I hit a good build order, I made good army choices, I controlled my army well, and the victory is all the sweeter for it.
Mengsk can do Anything.
Covert ops? The Emperor’s shadow and a billion academy silos. They cost like, 50 gas and the missiles are free. They launch about as fast as you can click.
Marine tank viking? You have troopers, medivacs, Tankivacs, vikings. You’re all set.
Mass Battlecruiser? I wouldn’t, but the PoA does exist.
Marine Marauder? Hell, the Aegis Guard is one of the best ground units in the game. Shields, aoe slow, aoe, high dps, tanky and healable. Plus your troopers have great guns.
Mech? Your Thors now come with an overwatch that splashes most air waves to death. Whatever leaks can be mopped up by…
Defensive tactics. Your bunkers are good, great when upgraded. You have HEAVY ARTILLERY. Your troopers can build missile turrets and bunkers wherever, whenever, and they can crewbuild them so quickly, you don’t even need to bring detection sometimes. Did I mention that they can switch to scvs and repair those bunkers in a blink? Yeah.
Your first calldown boosts your economy by six workers and some supply, and your troopers can easily clear out a second base if you wanna. Your second calldown CCs the enemy for a good few seconds for cheap. Your third calldown mobs the enemy wave and the enemy base behind it with a free tier 3 army well before your ally can squeeze out a tier 3 unit. Your fourth calldown erases about everything that exists, and then plonks down a nuke just in case you missed a battlecruiser ball behind all that stuff.
Mengsk is so versatile he makes Raynor look like a one trick pony. Macro up fast, get your blimps first, gun everything down. The Sons of Korhal won’t disappoint you.
Also, you can swap troopers to SCVs and they’ll repair themselves, then you can swap them back to troopers. Medivacs are completely optional unless you want tankivacs blowing air up
Forgot:
Zerg-esque trooper suicide rushes
“Bioball” of flamers / Marines, with anti-air capable marauders…
So, to make sure I’m on the right track, there are the following “genericized” options:
Bioball. Whether a zerg-esque basic trooper spam or a slightly more advanced (Raynor-esque?) weaponized Marine/Firebat/“Anti air” Maruauder (rocket trooper) build.
Elite Army. In the vein of Nova or Zeratul, the Royal Guards are yet another set of “super-sized version of core units”. Great, but sorta needs L15 to fully 100% shine.
Hybrid of above two. Whether it’s a pseudo-Abathur where you’re throwing troopers around with a smattering of “ultimate” RGs or a “core RG pseudo-hero” army with troopers “meat shielding” for the RGs.
Defensive Core. Terran-turtle-esque turret/bunker/tank lines with ESOs that can supplement the defense (blasting just outside the wall’s lines to soften stuff up) or provide an offense (look no further than the “take expo, spam ESO, laugh at Sycthe of Amon” replays)
As you can see, though, having this many options can quickly lead to “option overload” or zeroing in on your favorite option (for me, it’s defensive w/ESO spam) even though it’s not optimal for the situation. Season with “so many options leads to so many build orders” - 4xCC is a necessity as an early portion of the “bioball” builds, a “luxury” for your defensive builds (built to provide quick replacement insurance in case of wipe), and maybe a setback on the RG-centric builds (haven’t done many of these, do you float enough minerals to spam this many troopers in between having enough gas to get the next RG?)
It’s amazing, when I read you all I get why he is (or should be amazing) and yet when I play it …
Thanks for the suggestions to go up 4 CC. I just checked a replay and with 3 I am floating lots of minerals.
I just don’t get why he feels so much harder than the other commanders for me. I’ll retry his trooper style with a 4th CC, add in a few more firebats to handle AOE a bit better. Maybe try to add ESOs before pushing bases? I don’t know why but I just am a terrible Mengsk :s
I don’t play Mengsk so I can’t give any pro tips on his play. But back when I was leveling all the commanders to 15, I experienced something similar: I could jump in to them all and pick them up fairly easily. All except Zeratul and Mengsk. Both were confusing messes having never played or even read up on how to play them.
As far as Mengsk goes, I had to stop and do a bunch of research. I read up on Starcraft2Coop and a couple other random sites and watched a handful of replays. Eventually, I starting picking up the strats and timings and it became hilarious fun to play him.
So I think his learning curve is just steeper than most.
Mengsk has one of the fastest progressing tech trees because his troopers can crewbuild stuff.
When you’re not pushing, what I suggest is that you turn most of your troopers back into scvs and get down to building up your tech tree. You want the blimps with their imperial mandate upgrade, as soon as possible, overlooking your command center. You’ll need two for your mineral lines, and two to leapfrog when you’re pushing. Your imperial mandate is basically your safety bar: it gives you bunkers and free troopers, and Zerg as well.
I wouldn’t build ESO unless it’s specific maps where your ESO can provide artillery for multiple pushes, but you do you. The bread and butter of mengsk is a billion small dudes shooting a lot with cheap guns, while your upgraded dudes and RG put the hurt in the dirt.
starcraft 2 coop website for guides and build orders
Focus on spamming laborers/troopers, fast expand make multiple command centers ASAP.
You can easily win brutal without ever making Royal Guard or even the ESOrdinance.
Just get the upgrades (especially for witness mandate and medivac) and spam those zerg+nukes.
Gas should be spent on upgrades, trooper improvements, witness and medivac.
If an enemy wave is coming quickly build Bunkers (upgraded) and stuff all troopers in… its much more cost effective like that, salvage bunkers after if not needed.
Once u get less bad you can mix in Royal Guard and ESOrdinance.
First put in some Thors and Battlecruisers because they grant powerful auras to all nearby allies (including troopers).
No commander truly uses 100% of their kit in a mission. They zero in on the aspects of their kit that are a hard counter to the comp/mission.
Part of Mengsk’s… problem… is that he has so many “effective” options that it’s tempting to use all of them. And this is his “trap”.
To wit:
Now, you’re posting that you’re learning / working with Mengsk’s various RG-supported bioballs. So, how does the proposed ESOs “fit” within your plans to strike with the bioball?
From my limited Mengsk experiences, I’d say that one or two, built to get enough vision to toss a contaminated strike to fear Amon’s units as your bioball hits is “effective” - suddenly pulling up and building 10 to lay siege might actually be counterproductive at this point - odds are you don’t have enough defense to protect them / they’re going to take too long (at least a lot longer than just rushing your bioball would have) due to no focus into upgrading them / etc. isn’t.
Give that a try - “tune out” all these nifty things that Mengsk can do but isn’t 100% tied into what you’re trying to do.
Just try blimps on mineral lines and send out the prides asap, i do suggest trooppers with mixed weapons i try for 30% of them have missles, and a hand full of flame throwers, the rest the rifles. And spam dogs of war anytime you have 50+ mandate, thats when they start to get good
), Mengsk quickly differentiated himself as having one of the most dynamic, option-filled kits in the game. When playing and winning as Mengsk, it really feels like PLAYING the game. I hit a good build order, I made good army choices, I controlled my army well, and the victory is all the sweeter for it.
I groan every time I get him on Random CO.