Builds lost because of 12 Workers change

Starting with Zerg the pre 12 worker build orders that have been lost due to this change are: 6 Pool, 8 Pool, 9 Pool, 9 Pool Banes, 10 Pool, 10 Pool Banes. You can also argue about losing other builds (13/12 14/14) because they now hit at a different timings and are either more defensible or less transition able.
Protoss have lost: Proxy 2 Gate, Proxy Stalkers, Korean 4gate/builds using a faster gateway for all ins/pressure.
Terran has lost: Proxy 2 Rax, Proxy Reaper, Proxy Maruader, 2 Rax Reaper and certain gas first play, not to mention that like I said with zerg all these races are losing some builds that create things after 12 workers just because how all the timings have shifted.

That is not little in the way of choices like posted, there’s a lot of options there just because most of these aren’t used in all or most BO3 (except the early pools in ZvZ) doesn’t mean that you should cut all of them out of the game, oftentimes these builds lead to some of the most exciting games/controversial games.

Time saved from 12 Worker change

On to addressing the time you save with this change, I’m basing my numbers off when you can first build a army unit since this is when the first meaningful interaction could take place.
The builds I’m getting the information from are the typical macro builds in Lotv showed in the LOTUS tournament I will then compare this from builds used typical macro builds used in Hots which I will get from Proleague. The timings will then be done on sc2planner just to make sure it’s accurate. All the times listed are in realtime/lotv time not hots time.

Zerg
LOTV 13 Overlord 17 Hatch 18 Pool. Pool Finishes at 2:00
HOTS 9 Overlord 15 Hatch 16 Pool. Pool Finishes at 2:40

Protoss
LOTV 13 Pylon 15 Gate. Gate Finishes at 1:20
HOTS 9 Pylon 13 Gate. Gate Finishes at 1:58
LOTV 13 Pylon 18 Nexus 19 Gateway. Gate Finishes at 2:04
HOTS 9 Pylon 15 Nexus 16 Gateway. Gate Finishes at 2:41

Terran
LOTV 14 Depot 16 Rax. Rax Finishes at 1:27
HOTS 9 Depot 12 Rax. Rax Finishes at 1:56
LOTV 14 Depot 17 CC 18 Rax. Rax Finishes at 2:00
HOTS 9 Depot 15 CC 16 Rax. Rax Finishes at 2:46

I didn’t include a pool first because in Lotv there is no build that can stop a hatch first without a proper reaction from the Zerg meaning hatch first is the only build you should be doing.

Average Time Saved

Zerg 40 Seconds
Protoss 37.5 Seconds
Terran 37.5 Seconds

Conclusion
Blizzard did what they set out to do, they have reduced downtime but they have impacted other areas of the game to do so.
I started off with listing the builds that are directly affected, the reason I did this is because blizzard made the assertion that “the first few minutes of any game often grant little in the way of choices” this is just blatantly false. There are choices and they impact how the macro builds are played this is clearest in ZvZ and other mirror matchups. A 9 pool is a strong build against a 15 hatch and a pool later than 15 since you can deny the hatchery and place your own faster than they can replace theirs which puts you at a advantage, but if they went for a fast gas with that hatch first they now have a window of opportunity to use their quicker speed for aggression/map control to tip the game either into their favour or to even it up. Even though a 9 pool could be said to counter a hatch first, the hatch first player still has options because the other player sacrificed earlygame droning for that play meaning they will be on close to equal drone count.
With a 12 worker start everything is accelerated the time for things to happen is contracted making most forms of early aggression completely all in and non-transitional.
The second problem with a 12 worker start is how the infrastructure scales with your worker count, the builds I posted above are the smooth timings (Constant worker production and placing the expansion/unit production when the money is available) the problem is you also have 3/4 workers more than the smooth timings in Hots. A single worker mines roughly 30 minerals a minute so you’re gaining 90-120 more minerals a minute in your smooth timing build that you would’ve been doing in Hots. This naturally scales production much faster hurtling you towards the mid/lategame.
I vaguely remember DK talking about he wanted more distinct phases to the game, where different races can take map control with particular units and different times. This isn’t going to happen if everyone is on a fast track to 200/200.
Micro is the key goal for this game, micro is most visible/done at smaller supply counts when you get to higher supply counts micro is becomes less important (since the advantage from the micro is negligible in comparison to army positioning) If you want micro why speed up the path to 200/200 and deathball play?
One quick point to touch on is how 12 workers affects Overlord scouting, the first overlord comes at a reasonable time on most 2 player maps (fast enough to see if it’s a marine or reaper safely) but the second one is not vs T/P meaning scouting is much harder and since this is a game of information it’s a huge detriment to zerg.
I’m going to wrap the conclusion up since I feel a bit rambling and incoherent, I’m better at short snappy points rather than long exposition.

1 Like

As crazy as it sounds, I find 30 workers and starting with a barrack/gateway/pool and two expansions to be a better change. This way you can start to make “actual” decisions from the get-go. E.g. do I want to start a 3rd now? Do I want to tech? Do I want to make an army?

You have to make this choice within the first minute of the game.

The 12 worker change was the best change they made to StarCraft. They should’ve done it in HoTS honestly, and they should’ve gone further. Sadly they discontinued support before they could bring this game into the modern era. Hopefully one of the new RTS productions figures it out.

6 Likes

You are complaining about 12 workers start this late??? LOL

Just learn the new cheeses you pesky cheeser

No.
12 workers start is trash. Not only it made certain units\playstyles completely obsolete (medivacs, mutas etc) but also they accelerated economy to the point that you need at least 120 apm for macro ALONE. If you add micro to this it may require 180-200 apm to even play this stupid game properly. Maybe from strategical point of view 12 workers start has some advantages but from mechanical point of view it’s a disaster. Eco literally skyrockets after 5th minute and from this point game turns from RTS into keyboard-bashing masochism. Is that how you want to play the game ?

3 Likes

The meta game is where the 12 workers has truly had an awful effect. Previously, PvZ had so many possibilities and map specific nuances. going 15 nexus vs a 6-9 pool on a small map was a serious gamble and required immediate scouting. Zerg almost never goes for a Pool before a Hatchery anymore.

I know it sounds masochistic but, as a Protoss player, I actually miss losing to 6 pools.

Can always stack your probes and rush I do it a lot and get some games where it half fails and almost resets the game like its good old wings of liberty with even longer delay at start but these games are chaos and so much fun.

1 Like

All it removed super early rushes and gave defensive better chance.

And nothing really change 6 pool and now 12 pool of Zerg can still kill another Zerg or toss. But not Terran neither can 6 pool effect Terran because ability to Wall off.

So on Zerg side nothing change I really don’t know about Protoss or Terran but I think it’s same.

Most games are decided by a 15 second fight right at the end. Skip past the 20 minutes of macroing and go straight to the last fight. Casters hated having to fill time at the start of the game when players made their first 6 drones. So obviously the correct thing to do was to make them have to fill time for 20 minutes instead. Heck most games have a 50/50 odds of being won, on the ladder at least, so why don’t we just flip a coin to see who wins?

The worker change means less build order losses which was a bit of a problem pre-LotV. Overall even if it killed some builds, it was a good change that helped mitigate the RPS aspect before scouting info even comes in.

4 Likes

All pre 12 worker rushes were possible to defend with macro, but also by simply 12 pooling yourself. Noobs hated it because they like to play simcity, build buildings, and then have a giant, maxed amove fight at the end, and they couldn’t do that if 1 base allins had a potential to ein. That’s the real issue.

It was also harder to close out games against a person who was behind in the old economic model. You could always max on 3 bases and even on 2 you’d see people take the most cautious approach to expanding. Contrast this to last weeks gsl where Byun was beating hero handedly but played slightly too slow and didn’t expand with his lead causing him to lose the game.

Translation, being ahead in economy wasn’t a catch-all win-con that over-rode every other factor in the game. “I have more bases/workers than you” was an advantage, but not an over-riding advantage. You could still win, from behind, with clever play or by abusing a tech advantage or an upgrade lead. Now it’s “you are behind in 8 workers, the game’s over but it will take 20 minutes to resolve with the same outcome.” That’s why SC2 pros are obscessed with optimizing build orders to squeeze out 1 extra drone and stack the drones on their minerals to get an extra 25 minerals.

Frankly it’s obnoxious. Eco plays are way too powerful. Maybe the new map pool changes this, opens up new vulnerabilities, but probably not. I played a 6k mmr KR pro several times, trying a variety of aggressive strats, and they all bombed. I faced him again, did 3 hatch, macro, and it was a close 45 minute game. Worker-spam is way too powerful. If you go from 0% win-rate to 50% win-rate vs a 6000 KR gm by changing how many drones you make, drones are busted. We’re talking a 1,000 mmr hit that has to be taken to attempt attacking your opponent. It’s insane. If you spam drones and turtle, it boosts your mmr by legitimately 1,000.

People say that the games were hard to close out in hots and that’s just totally insane. We’re talking “moon landing was fake” levels of sheer bs. The game has never been harder to close out than it is now. The outcomes are the same, it just takes longer. The reason for this is that nobody has any choice except to spam workers and play a 40 minute macro game, and Byun’s commitment to aggression, vs hero, is a perfect example. SC2 is “the first person to attack, loses” and the mechanism for that is “by attacking, you made fewer workers, and workers are all that matter, so you lose.”

HotS used to be balanced so well that the energy level of sentries was a win con. Literally. You could lose with a big eco and maxed zerg army IF the protoss were allowed to over-bank his sentry energy. Zergs learned, fast, that you had to constantly trade out units to keep sentry energy low. Sentry energy was, alone, a competitor for the game outcome. Now it’s drones, drones, and nothing but drones.

The early game used to be defined by unit-retainment, and the mid game was defined by tech and upgrades. Games were won or lost by losing 1 stalker too many in the early game, won or lost by having an upgrade 5 seconds slower or faster than your opponent,and the late game was dominated by economy and efficient trading. The early and mid game don’t exist to any meaningful degree. It’s all about end-game play, big economy, and efficient trading. The 12 worker start DELETED probably half of the early game strategies and probably a quarter of mid game strats (delayed aggression means I can get away with more greed and penetrate deeper into the late game with all other factors equal).

Tech, upgrade, and aggressive plays are absolute trash compared to worker-spam. You either spam workers or your lose, no matter how well you play. They like this from a game design perspective because game outcomes are very loosely correlated with game design, because the better multitasker wins the longer games (which emphasize multitasking above all else).

The other strategic options are “economy-adjacent.” You don’t use them to win the game, you use them to get more workers and the workers win the game. Cloak on a banshee will never end a modern game of SC2. It can give you an 8 worker lead, though. Sentries won’t win a modern game of SC2, but they can keep your workers alive vs a runby. Everything is about skipping the early and mid game, getting to the end-game as fast as possible, and then winning a 15 second long fight right at the end, and it’s that fight which decides the outcome, and what decides your power level in that fight is how many workers you had in the early and mid game. That’s it. That’s the entirety of SC2 strategy in a nutshell. It’s worker spam.

Frankly I need to stop giving away free game design consultation, lmao. It’s a terrible idea to do it, even if paid, unless the pay is truly substantial. If you are good at game design, you just make your own game and rake in the cash. Why I give blizzard free consult services is just beyond me. It’s probably the biggest mistake I am making in my life right now. 12 workers was one of the worst changes in the game history, and it contributed significantly to killing sc2 because it shifted the game away from unit retainment, micro, upgrades, tech, and pushed it towards multitasking. Dumb design decisions, like that, are why League is booming and SC2 is a meme. There you go. Why sc2 is dead and other rts games will succeed in a nutshell.

1 Like

Game doesn’t run to bad now with 6 workers I’ve used some old/custom maps to play with my son and it is more fun. One of those changes where they made the game worse to make it less cheesy and more about mechanical skill at spamming workers as stated which is more boring. You can still cheese but I do hate how it feels terrible to play one base its like I start with enough workers where the first expo feels mandatory.