Biased Area Damage Abilities / Attacks

General Discussion
1

Have you noticed how Imbalanced Area Dmg Abilities / Attacks are?

Clearly Protoss Lacks of Area Damage spell variety, and the few 4 spells the race has, 2 of them deal Full Dmg to friendly units, making it very hard to engage, while defending or attacking.

  • Zerg spells has NO consequences for the player but 1 and is a long range spell.
  • Terran has Only splash dmg consequences, but only for 2 of them.
  • Half Protoss area dmg affects the player’s units with FULL DMG, 1 mistake in casting and is game over.

Lets list them.

Zerg

  • Fungal: Area Damage Over Time, Slows units, Reveal cloaked units, Once casted on the units cant be dispelled, *Does NOT Affect friendly units.
  • Lurker Attack: Does not require energy, considerable high dmg to all units, very long range, *Does NOT Affect friendly units
  • Parasitic Bomb: : Area Damage Over Time, Once Casted cant be dispelled, if the target dies the spell remains and damages other units, *Does NOT Affect friendly units
  • Baneling: Deals splash dmg to enemy units when used or when it dies. *Does NOT affect friendly units.
  • Ravager: Vile deals dmg to all units in the area, does not require energy, Very fast cooldown, long range skill, can dispel force fields. *DOES affect friendly units.
  • Ultralisk: Deals dmg to the primary target and splash dmg to nearby units. *Does NOT affect friendly units.
    • 6 AoEs and only 1 affects friendly units

Terran

  • Tank: Damages the principal target and does Area Damage to units nearby. *DOES affect friendly units. (Only splash dmg)
  • Widow Mine: Damages the principal target and does Area Damage to units nearby. *DOES affect friendly units. (Only splash dmg)
  • Helion/Hellbat: Deals the same dmg to all targets in rage. *Does NOT affect friendly units
  • Thor: Air, Deals splash dmg to Air units. *Does NOT affect friendly units
  • Liberator: Air, Deals splash dmg to Air units. *Does NOT affect friendly units
  • Ghost: Nuke long range cast, can cloak while casting, deals dmg to ALL units and structures in range *DOES affect friendly units.
  • Ghost: EMP deals 100 shield dmg and drains 100 energy to ALL units in the area. Very long range, reveals cloaked units. **DOES affect friendly units.
  • Reaper: Grenade deals minor dmg to units in a small area and the target unit bounces making the unit unable to perform any action. **DOES affect friendly units.
    • 9 AoEs and 5 affects friendly units but Only as Splash dmg

Protoss

  • Storm: Deals dmg to ALL units in the area, once casted can be dodged, avoiding damage *DOES affect friendly units. (Deals full dmg to friendly units)
  • Nova: Deals dmg to ALL ground units in the area, once casted can be dodged, if the caster unit dies the spell is cancelled. *DOES affect friendly units. (Deals full dmg to friendly units) (Deals extra DMG to Shields)
  • Colossus: Deals area dmg to all ground units in a small size area. *Does NOT affect friendly units.
  • Archon: Deals dmg in the area. *Does NOT affect friendly units.
    • 4 AoEs and 2 affects friendly units with FULL dmg

While the amount of units per supply point looks like this.
(It’s representative, not mathematically accurate)

Zerg 1/2 - 1
Terran 1-1
Protoss 2-1

The area damage skills and abilities should be opposite as what it looks like now.

After that we can conclude that:

  • Zerg spell has NO consequences for the player but 1 and is a long range spell.
  • Terran has Only splash dmg consequences, but only for 2 of them.
  • Half Protoss area dmg affects the player’s units with FULL DMG, 1 mistake in casting and is game over.

Clearly Protoss Lacks of Area Damage spell variety, and the few 4 spells the race has, 2 of them deal Full Dmg to friendly units, making it very hard to engage, while defending or attacking.

2

Firstly, this entire post is disingenuous because it completely disregards game design decisions that directly influence the decisions made around the various splash damages for each race.

Secondly, what a wild way to do the comparison when you list the (incorrect) conclusion, then go (poorly) through splash damage of each unit, and list the amount of splash damage that friendly fires, get a separate conclusion (particularly for terran) that’s different from the first conclusion and then proceed to reiterate the first incorrect conclusion again.

Thirdly, of Protoss’ friendly fire abilities, the only one that actually genuinely poses any danger to them is Disruptor Novas, since they apply their damage on detonation, rather than in DoT form like Storm does.

This means that unless you’re literally sitting in storm for the full duration, you’re:

A) never going to eat full damage from the storm
B) almost never going to even break shields on your own (or enemy protoss) units, which regenerate rapidly.

There is a reason storm is almost never used in PvP, and that’s because it’s bad in PvP because protoss units are incredibly tanky, and storm almost doesn’t matter to them in 99% of cases. The sole exception to this is against clumped void-rays due to their propensity to stack on top of each other, and even then it takes multiple storms to be effective.

Fourthly, describing all of the ghosts AOE abilities as “Very long range” while simultaneously describing Fungal growth without the same modifier when fungal growth has both a significantly larger radius, and the same range, is somewhat disingenuous.

The same goes for Ravager biles compared to Storm and colossus, which both have the same range, while storm has a much larger radius than Ravager Biles do. If Ravager biles are considered long range (and they have 1 less range than EMP/Fungal) then why isn’t storm or Colossus classed as the same?

Disruptor isn’t considered a long range AOE, despite having a range that is comparable to that of a max range siege tank with full vision? And how are Siege tanks not considered long range splash units (though with the caveat that they require spotters to make use of their vision)?

In contrast, you also neglect to mention that the Helion and the widow mine are short range AOE units, while the hellbat is an extremely short AOE cone, and the baneling is a melee unit.

Fifth, you completely neglect to mention the Raven’s Anti-Armour missile, which, while not a damaging spell, is a long range spell, does strip armour (and therefore has a fairly significant impact on fights as a direct result), has a large aoe radius, and will friendly-fire as well.

I could go on, because there’s a lot wrong with this post, but I think I’ve made my point.

TLDR: this is a shockingly bad comparison for numerous reasons, not the least of which is the complete and utter failure to take into account racial design context, in addition to conclusions that are in direct contradiction to the body of the post, and half of which are at best, misleading, and at worst, entirely incorrect.

6 Likes
3

Hi!

It’s funny that you think the post is disingenuous, when actually your reading comprehension skills are below average.

If I say the grass is green, and you understood the grass is blue, obviously you are going to think that what I said is wrong.

And intead of trying to understand the idea properly, you proceed to elaborate a reply based on what you thought you understood.

I dont think I should reply to you and correct your reading comprehension mistakes, but maybe it might be useful for someone reading it.

And I’ll reply in my next comment.

4

You did a very poor job explaining whatever point you are trying to make, and you didn’t show any of your work. Most, if not all, of Miro’s counterpoints are valid.

5 Likes
5

Gotta love a post that contains nothing but complaining and no actual constructive ideas. I mean what do you want? Banelings to do friendly fire?

2 Likes
6

My reading comprehension skills are apparently far better than yours; I had no trouble reading, nor understanding, the drivel that you were trying to spout.

Your inability to understand my counterpoints, let alone why they’re relevant to your post doesn’t make them any less relevant.

3 Likes
7

I’m not disregarding anything, I made a comparison between Area Damage skills between races.
You talk about the game desing decisions, can you tell us what those game design decisions are? it appears you are a developer and know much about.
And the Various splash damages for each race.
Well, again you didnt read properly, Terran is the only race that has friendly fire splash damage. (Which is this post is about, "Friendly Fire Area Damage Skills/Attack).

That is incorrect, the total splash damage for terran is 9, yes, but are only 2 the ones that really affects them in battle (Tank, and window mine)
Again this post is about Friendly Fire Skills / Attacks. So only 2 count as really impactful for the race.

Are you telling that Storm is a Garbage skill since noone is never going to ear full dmg from storm? I agree here, that why Protoss needs more Area DMG skills.
Again, this is about Friendly Fire Area damage skills, you state that “You are never going to even break shields on your own (or enemy protoss) units”.
Well, this is not about breaking shields, its about Friendly Fire Damage, while it might not break at all, it deals considerable dmg if standing, and forcing to not engage properly. That is the point as I state in the original post

If you want to have a full description of the skills go to the game, or a wiki.
This post is for people that already know the skills.

Both Ghost and fungal have a very large range.

Again, reading comprehension.

Range and size area are not the same. I never stated what you understood.

If you want a full description of the skills go to the game and wiki.
You are whining because i didnt write the full description?
This is about Friendly Fire area damage, and the pople here most know the skills.

We are listing here Only Area Damage skills, thats why its not listed.
And you said it yourself.

Really dude, think and read before replying.

8

Lol, you didn’t read too.

Take a look again

9

Still no suggestions, and some nitpicking. Peak

1 Like
10

Your comments definitely has no constructive word by far, just a personal critic and negative words. So please take your own recommendations for yourself first before posting.

And if you cant see the purpouse of the post then you should think again.

The first step to solve a problem is to make it visible, then all people can start to propose solutions.

11

I’ve not said anything constructive because you’ve said nothing worth replying to. So I’ll just mock at the sidelines until you provide something that can actually be discussed.

1 Like
12

But here you are, replying haha

Cmon dude. still no positive comments, just a bunch of poison from your mouth.

13

Tell you what. I’ll even do you a favour. I’ll take your assertions above as true. Now what do you want there to be done about it?

14

Its your life dude.

You want me to tell you what to do with it?

15

Thanks for proving my point.

1 Like
16

You came here and reply for yourself, no one forced you to come here, and now you are offended, haha.

You came here just posting negative comments, and when you where discovered as the one poisoning and not contrubiting.

What a childish attitude.

So for people that don’t know who this OverFjell guy is.
This is the One supporting the other guy “Adventurer” with their trash comments and insulting people in other posts, you can look for them.

17

Lol I don’t support Adventurer at all, I just agree with people that make decent points. Just because I don’t lose my mind when someone says something I disagree with, (and I’ve had plenty of disagreements with him over the years), doesn’t mean I’m in cahoots with them. I’m not loyal to anybody on here (though I would consider Miro to be a friend). I came here expecting something constructive to be offered so that we could have an actual discussion, but you’ve framed your whole post as an extended whine with no actual solutions. What else could you expect?

I would still be willing to listen to your ideas and give them consideration, as is the mark of anybody with decent education, but you keep deflecting because I was moderately abrasive (it’s the internet btw, it happens).

So come on, give me your ideas.

2 Likes
18

Sure, champ! :slight_smile:

Still you haven’t proposed anything to the post.

Just negative non sense, and nothing related to the post.
And I’ll quote your own words.

No coherence from your part.

Try again next time, champ

19

I’m not the one who started the thread. Are you so afraid of having your ideas examined that you are too scared to post them?

I genuinely don’t know what you expected from this thread, when you come in with literally nothing to offer but a bunch of numbers that mean nothing inside of a vacuum. I’ve also tried to give you the floor to offer your solutions to your percieved problem, and instead you’re just insulting me?

1 Like
20

Very positive and constructive comment from your part.
Wow! you are so bright!

Try again next time buddy! :slight_smile: