Protoss for the last 5-6 years :
Widows mines drop are a serious problems in PvT.
- Balance team : Let’s buff widowmine
Terran FEELS behind economically just because they have less bases, but forget that toss on even bases of a Terran is BEHIND.
14 Likes
I haven’t seen them. not even in pro matches. except for initial drop attempt. I am referring to using them like we used to before the initially nerfs to them. make widow mines great again.
Its not a feeling, Terran IS BEHIND economically vs Protoss
Just watch some Pro games and use your brain maybe ??
Why do you think 3/4 of the tvp games result in scvp pull champ ???
1 Like
If you need to balance Banelings. The best way to do it is give them friendly fire to other Zerg units. So that Zerg players will be obliged to Micro by attacking on different sides and using other abilities such as drops and burrow.
Terran is already obliged to stutter step. Position Siege tanks and distance on the mines.
Protoss is obliged to blink force field and time their charge. Etc. Etc.
Target firing banelings is hard because they are very small, fast and to see that they mix into other units. With this. This would make their attack visible and defendable by anti baneling units. Like Marauders. Without just melting when mixed with zerglings.
With friendly fire. It’s the Zerg’s prerogative to melt their own Zerglings/Roach with the attack
And the Terran or Zerg to Stay close to their Non Baneling units as well. At the very least It’s even instead of one sided.
This would make Zerg players learn to micro more and surround instead of just attack move boom.
Banelings were too strong that they dont even use lurkers/borrow anymore.
Which is true since SC 1. Mass Overlord drops, Burrowed ambushes, and lurkers were niche.
4 Likes
they acknowledge that there is a problem and then they revert widow mines to what they were before and said that should fix it. lmfao…
I couldn’t make that up… however, maybe instead of making their super fast 3rd they can build detectors and cannons. just use their extra resources there…
however. should theoretically result in less units t your front door by the 5 min mark.
Widow Mine Armory will grant invisibility.
Queen Anti-air weapon range 7.
Baneling> no longer +5 HP.
Infestor> * Microbial Shroud
Creep Tumor> * “Light” tag
Nexus> * New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Oracle> Revelation
High Templar> * Feedback range
Finally, the longed for Balance update ! 
I agree with most of the diagnosis and fixes being proposed :
- the queens 8 AA wasn’t necessary anymore since the liberator’s nerfs, yet did hurt a lot the protoss’ harass
- The decreep’s buffs should help the vs Z MU without decreasing the cost-efficiency of early Z units. More compositions wiil be able to decreep. I like that.
- High templars’ feedback +1 range will help in late PvZ, while the recent buffs of the ghost should even the impact in TvP
- Mines will get cloak faster in some builds, emphasing the importance of detection in the builds/strategic responses, but not as fast as originally. Good trade-off
- Microbial shroud is indeed currently underused
- Banelings will return to their original HP, and were completely fine with it
If I may add some thoughts to yours :
- Most MU are close to balance, but PvZ. SH’s locust are currently free-units, yet deadlier than regular ones, which is specially punishing against low mobility targets, such as protoss’ armies, mech armies, but also… buildings. I would consider making locusts workers/light units counters, instead of Nexuses killers.
- BCs are currently being a bit too efficient as openers, and are eating away the variety of non professional TvT. A lot of players of the other races do complain about them. I wonder if teleport couldn’t be acquired via an upgrade.
- I’m not sure the cyclone’s 3 supplies cost is really worth their 120 HP. This, combined to the lategame lock range trigger still being 7 restrains their use in late-game vs BLs and BCs
- Lurkers are siege units, with the range and bulkiness of such, yet outspeed most regular army units. Hence leading to situations where lurkers could runby other sieged units, siege themselves, and still be cost effective afterwards. This while ravagers are notoriously not that good in lategame. I wonder if some power (+1 range ?) couldn’t be removed from the lukers, and given as an upgrade to lategame ravagers.
Lastly, it’s not related to balance, but some intermediate level players do claim having noticed an increase in smurfing/freeloosing since F2P. That practice would degrade the experience of play of many players, for the satisfaction of few ; while it could potentially be easily adressed. Please take a look over this issue if you have the time.
Thanks for the community update, SC2 team ! 
3 Likes
great changes, love the baneling nerf <3
2 Likes
As much as I hate banelings, I want a balanced game, not zerg that can’t do anything. Friendly fire banelings would be more usless than the void ray.
2 Likes
Dear Blizzard devs, put this on your mind: NO ONE LIKES TO PLAY AGAINS’T WIDOW MINES!
if you want to buff terrans, I prefer you double marine’s health and damage and make stim buff permanent
8 Likes
Guess what, nobody like to play against skill less warp prism and zealots either
2 Likes
nah the buff ht feedback range is also ok but not anything special it maybe let ht’s feedback ghost’s before emp but the intetion as a buff vs zerg is missed
I support all these changes. Especially the widow mine change is good since it will make it possible to take the 3rd on time vs Protoss instead of always being behind.
Feedback change is also good since it helps both vs vipers and vs emp.
Baneling nerf is needed since baneling are too good vs almost anything.
Queen nerf is a good thing since Queens are much too good vs everything in the air. Maybe now it will be possible to use banshee or oracles vs Zerg.
I like the new shield overcharge ability as well since it will make PvP more strategic and not always givning the advantage to the agressor.
So I hope all of these changes go into the live version, it will improve the game a lot.
Posted feedback here
My humble “plat” opinion. I know these changes are designed to GM/PRO Level, and the issue in lower leagues is not balance but mainly macro, mechanics, etc. But I’m commenting just as an “expectator” of GM/PRO games, and I think this balance update in PvZ is missing a few things to consider from design perspective:
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Swarmhosts/Nydus, this strategy has been tuned down with the past changes to the Nydus, but it is still very effective and makes hard for Protoss defend multiple positions, also the DPS of the locust is insane, since these are zero risk, free units, are very cost effective. So I ask the balance team to adjust this unit.
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In early game I think Ravagers are a very powerful unit and also I think you should consider some changes on this unit. I think the issue is mainly how “corrosive” bile works and destroys force fields straight out in early game pushes. I would consider tuning it down, maybe there should be two types of corrisive bile, an early game version that doesn’t destroys force fields right away and grant this ability through an upgrade (in roach warren). This will help with early game balance, and also give the sentry the defensive role it was meant to have, and in mid-late game ravagers could crumble force fields, like with other matchups (giant units), I suspect this capability should belong more to mid-late game rather than early game. In my humble plat opinion I would move the Ravager to be available after Lair tech, but I know is needed since Zerg doesn’t have good anti-air specially vs Terran in early game.
Those are two changes I’d like to see in this patch at least to be tested as well that would help to balance more PvZ.
The other changes seem fair to me except for the 8 range of the nexus and the new overcharge ability I don’t think this will help to protect the Natural base since the Natural would be “recently” built and won’t have enough energy to cast the Natural’s nexus ability, so I’d reduce either the energy or increase the range a little bit.
2 Likes
Tvp meta for the longest time is protoss getting a 3. significantly faster than terran.
1 Like
I think the baneling change will skew TvZ in terran’s favour, as we are currently seeing bio very popular among top terrans already, which banelings are used heavily against.
I’ve said this before, but if you want to nerf queen aa then you have to address what it’s supposed to be used for:
- Vs BC openers, because they are so tanky you usually need like 6 queens just to shoo one away, even then it will escape unless the terran miscontrols. Reducing queen range will make it even harder for zerg to defend this build cost efficiently.
- Vs archons and prism, the total range archon drop used to be 9, 3 for archon 6 for prism. Prism range was nerfed so that the total range was 8, equal to queen aa making the interaction skill based, but now by lowering queen aa range the interaction becomes protoss favoured again.
- Vs abusive liberator spots, contrary to popular belief, most maps in the current map pool still have locations where liberators can siege up a mineral line with a total range of 9, making them unattackable by any of zerg’s ground units. The queen nerf further emphasizes this problem by making abusive liberator positioning more forgivable for the terran.
- Vs double sg phoenix, zerg is still forced to turtle on 3 base queen spore as has been the case since the beginning of lotv, and this nerf exacerbates the lack of otions from zerg to deal with this build.
5 Likes
i wish, sadly no…
First of all, thank you for this. Corona has been hard, especially in california. I honestly expected this in mid may.
Drilling Claws upgrade no longer grants Widow Mines invisibility. Instead, the existence of an Armory will grant Widow Mines invisibility.
This is a wierd change. On the one side, this does force out stalkers and cannons from the protoss, which is the intention. On the other hand, widow mine drops already have the potential to knock out the protoss from the game if they miss it.
This also could hurt zerg muta play, as drilling claw mines are often a great deterent for mutas.
Queen: Anti-air weapon range decreased from 8 to 7.
Thank you. This was needed.
Centrifugal Hooks no longer grants Banelings +5 HP.
Centrifugal Hooks cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Good.
Microbial Shroud no longer requires an upgrade.
Good.
“ Creep Armored” tag removed.
“Light” tag added.
This does help with dealing with creep for terran. I don’t see adepts being used to clear creep because warp prisms don’t scale and adepts are far slower than stimmed marines. This does help with the initial scouting adepts being able to kill initial tumors early though, so that is a bonus. I don’t see oracles being used to clear creep as their energy is better suited to revelation and stasis wards.
Nexus overcharge
This is good. Does help with PvP defenders advantage.
Oracle revelation changes
This is good in the early and midgame, but it’s going to hurt protoss in the lategame as oracles don’t often survive casting a revelation.
Feedback range increased from 9 to 10.
This is kinda mixed. On the one hand, this does zone out vipers, but on the other hand, feedback costs 2/3 of a storm so this could prevent templar from storming. Also, vipers have consume so they can replenish energy quickly forcing protoss to use up gas to make more templar as it is better to morph used up templar and make new ones instead of waiting on the templar to gain more energy. Finally, lurkers still have 10 range so they are going to make it hard to feedback. Boosting feedback’s range is a step in the right drection, but it’s not enough.
Some things I want to see are not being able to abduct motherships and making the tempest better in PvT to deal with liberators.
Overall, a 7 out of 10 stars. This patch has some great changes but there is room for improvment.
2 Likes
None of these do anything for Protoss.
I give up, this game is not going anywhere, and it is definitely on a dead end.
Going back to SC1.
8 Likes
That’s the point though. The balance team said they don’t want feedback shutting down ghosts.