Surprised pikachu face.
They buff Terran and nerf Zerg/Toss. I guess they’re trying to kill the game before all these other rts’s come out?
Nerfing zerg is needed, with a more balanced map pool
Thats all we need
You’re insane. Zerg is the weakest race. Just because Serral/Dark are the best players in the game doesn’t mean its because of the race they play.
Maybe they are the best because zerg is overpowered ? Has this thought ever crossed your mind ?
What ??? Where is terran “buffed” ?
Ghost - huge nerf - might as well be removed from the game
Cyclone - redesign which servers no purpose. I don’t know what this unit is now supposed to counter.
Raven - nerf
Medivac - retarded upgrade that nobody is going to use because it’s in the tech lab. Similar to rapid reignition systems. If you want upgrades for medivac put it in Fusion Core and make sure it’s powerful
Widow mine - ok the only which might have been buffed. But the change is very subtle and i don’t think terrans were even asking for this.
They did not address BC tactical jump which is cancer in TvT and lots of terrans want this to be gone for good (in exchange for some other buff of course)
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If it did, he might scrub it out.
Anyway, I think most of these changes are fine. There is a reasonable explanation behind most of the changes, whether you, I, or anyone on the forums personally agrees with all of them or not.
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True but i do not understand cyclone change. It’s role was anti-mobile/flying/armored targets (libs, voids etc). What is it supposed to counter now ? How will TvT look like without old cyclones.
Btw I hate when delusional guy says “zerg is the weakest race now” as if it held any truth.
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I think the point was to be able to mass Cyclones as part of a mobile mech force outside of TvT. The old Cyclone dropped off fairly quickly in large engagements because of the need to lock-on to hit anything (in large numbers, only a few Cyclones on the edge can ever lock-on), because of the lock-on cooldown, because you had to manually order multiple Cyclones to attack the same target, and because the health per supply was very low.
Most of those issues are directly or indirectly fixed in the rework. The edge-only lock-on is still a problem, but it is diminished slightly by removing the cooldown and enabling multiple Cyclones to auto-lock on the same target. The faster Cyclones (after upgrade) will also be better at keeping up with Hellions.
Individual Cyclones will be worse at tracking and killing a target before it gets out of range, but the buffs to Cyclones in numbers may be enough to compensate for that, or at least that is my understanding. We’ll see whether or not it actually works.
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Something tells me that battle mech (cyclone hellion) will fall out of favour just because of how fragile cyclones are now. They were glass cannon before and now are even bigger glass cannons. When fungal lands on those roaches will demolish them i think.
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Battlemech was already struggling because it doesn’t scale into larger fights, and easily gets shutdown if it is forced to fight while lock-on is on cooldown. Fungal and flanks arguably shut down the current Battlemech more than they could with the suggested Cyclone rework.
It’s true that individual Cyclones are squishier, but you can get around 50% more of them. 100 health at 2 supply is usually better than 120 health at 3-supply. The increased attack range and lack of a cooldown for lock-on will also both improve the Cyclone’s ability to fight in longer engagements, even if their individual ability to pick off a single unit while kiting is weakened.
Cyclones got buffed by the rework. Pretending they arent better because of the rework is disingenuous.
I remember games with pure cyclones early game where protoss could never even touch the cyclones because they where just running around in circles on the map. Clicking a unit, killing it, over and over again.
This WILL happen with this BUFF, because the unit still does the same stuff, but BETTER. because they are CHEAPER, and EASILY made.
It will be extremely oppressive early/mid game, wich constitutes as there being no late game at all.
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4 supply disruptors could be seen from a mile away.
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Frankly, the updated cyclones will be incredibly OP. I’m not sure what either Protoss or Zerg is supposed to do against them. They hit ground+air, have incredible DPS, and can move while shooting. Stalkers won’t trade cost effectively into them, and the same is obviously true of zealots/adepts; immortals are the only thing that might work, but… that’s not exactly a good solution. For Zerg, they’ll struggle vs Lings, but some hellions/hellbats can resolve that.
But yes, aside from that and the medivac regen upgrade, Terran is getting nerfed a bit, though none of them are too significant, and they only come into play late game.
And BC tac jump is still problematic (also vs Protoss if Terran can get to late game BCs, since protoss has no units that can fight them effectively except kiting tempests, which get shut down by tac jump.)
I think the bigger issue is that their changes to Protoss aren’t likely to the intended result of increasing stability, particularly with the MS change. Getting access to a second recall more easily will potentially lead to more shenanigans from protoss players (while it will inevitably help them in the late game, it’s not by making their army more stable or better able to contend with the late game Terran/Zerg armies that they currently cannot fight because their units either don’t scale, cost too much supply, are too specialized, and/or are too easily countered), but the nerf to disruptors with no compensation for other Protoss units to help their late game except a slight nerf to EMP is a problem. Protoss doesn’t have any other viable options at that stage, because none of their other tech units are particularly supply efficient and/or get too easily countered.
Both Voids and Tempests have a supply cost problem where they are mostly okay for the cost, but aren’t worth the supply, and reducing the supply cost is not an option because it’d make them too strong, so they need to be adjusted to be either stronger a higher cost, or weaker with a lower cost and supply cost.
Colossus aren’t worth 6 supply/have pitiful DPS vs non-light units.
Observers have no reason to even have a supply cost considering their gas cost and robo production time prohibits protoss from making large numbers of them regardless.
Immortals are too expensive or too slow.
In the early game stalkers/adepts/air units can heavily abuse shield regen with their mobility vs macro openers, so they have to be very expensive for how strong they are compared to T/Z units (Terran are unable to regenerate for free, except reapers which have the same problem but lack the range and HP to as effectively abuse the regen, and the Zerg is unable to bring out mutalisks early enough for regen to be a problem.). This is a big part of the reason for Protoss’s instability at the high level, where they are utterly dependent on getting damage in with these units; nerfing shield regen and attaching the current value to an upgrade could very address the problem and allow for those units to be buffed a bit so they can be a bit stronger or cheaper.
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Serral, Dark, Raynor, and Rogue are the best players in the game.
In fact, every Zerg player is the best player in the game. That’s why they have so much more average MMR.
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Dude, if you’re losing to Cyclones, as PROTOSS… You’re getting styled on. With bio on the current map pool, you could make a rational case that Protoss is the weakest, if only at the absolute peak of performance (Premier Tournaments – GM is still DOMINATED by Protoss).
BUT, if you’re losing to Battle mech, your opponent is just straight disrespecting you.
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They’re talking about cyclones on a different balance patch. There were multiple where they were completely broken vs Protoss, especially during the LoTV beta. Currently, cyclones are fine, and I’m kind of surprised they’re being changed when they see play in all 3 match ups.
Yes, and this is sort of what needs to be addressed.
The problem with Protoss representation is largely because its skill scaling is a bit funky due to having lots of bad units, then “good” units and a lot of timing attacks that can be difficult to scout properly and react to due to its varied tech openers, that depend heavily on their opponent’s ability to recognize and react to them.
Disruptors are the biggest offender in that regard, because they’re also the only viable option for late game protoss ground armies, because everything else is too weak/not supply efficient and/or is too easily countered. How many disruptors are needed for them to be useful is extremely dependent on the skill of the opponent, the more skilled the opponent, the more disruptors are needed, requiring them to come in at a later point in the game where those numbers can be supported. If a player doesn’t have enough disruptors to overcome their opponent’s skill, they do little other than force some micro.
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Dude, mech has never once been viable, much less broken vs Protoss. Please go and find old VODs of “broken cyclones” vs Protoss. Were there games that TY busted off occasionally? Sure. He even still busts it out occasionally. But it always sucked.
This is the kind of person you can just straight up ignore. There’s nothing so pathetic that they won’t whine about it.
It’s been a LOOOONG standing problem that I don’t think will be fixed, ever, to be honest.
Especially this +2 banes 1 hitting probes bs. Finally. What a dumb sh!t that was. Zerg having map Control in zvp all day Long while playing Bowling with Freaking banes vs probes securing the win because it forces protoss to move Out as they are No longer competetive ecowise.
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I mean I kinda get what your saying via Cyclone and what knock we will see how that works i hope its not super proxy factory rush cyclone go!
but ROFLMAO Ghosts where nerfed hard
WTF dos EMP even do now? It got nerfed SO Hard and the buffs to other races vs EMP is just ROFLMAO they want that ability GONE aparently I mean heck Toss may have issues but at least th ey wont have to worrie about EMP all that much
and Snipe became a joke Yeah cant even deal with T1 units properly anymore
i love it when games have like T2+ units be unable to deal with lower tier units properly at all
ghosts are a complete ROFLMAO Joke
Cyclones tho could prob be a ROFLMAO STOMP YOUR FACE IN type of OP Joke …
There is it again. A terran with 0 clue about the game rambles about the slight nerf…CORRECTION: it is not a nerf. Its reverted back to the state it was for years and years.
In 2019 a buff came out of nowhere giving ghost the upgrade for emp range from 1.5 to 2. While that was completly uncalled for and really broken, they later removed the upgrade but gave emp a flat buff with emp radius improved to 1.75. NOW its getting reverted again to 1.5. So, no, they dont want to see emp gone. They changed it back to how it was a few years ago. Its still a very very very strong spell.
oh they will still care about emp. trust me. they will care.
welcome to protoss i guess. Well not really colossi are still doing sh!t.
Also ghosts are still in a very fine spot.
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I do personally have some concerns for TvT BC openers now not really having a true counter in early cyclones or ravens, but I’m content to wait and see. It feels very… out of left field, I suppose.
I do see people’s concerns about the theoretical damage output that it has, but people also forget that the damage output is actually less than it was before, while the unit has less health and armour than before and is also slower until it gets upgraded. Oh, and has a lower lock on range and lower overall range when target locked.
It certainly has the potential to be extremely powerful, especially since it now scales off upgrades, but I think the tradeoff will balance it out and make it rather finicky to use, at least early on.
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