Yes I know those things and that’s why I think they should stay light. Why would making them armored make mech better vs toss? Did you see Ty vs. Parting? Archons suck vs mech except for against hellbats,(and of course vikings) atleast give them that… Shiiii. They’re a gas dump that’s probably better spent on sg’s, blink dts, etc. They get wrecked by tanks, tthors, bcs, libs, even banshees
Who said they should be armored? The topic was removing the biological tag.
2 Likes
So they would have no tag and take no bonus damage from anything? Seems fair, especially against zerg.
No man. They are biological, light, and mechanical. As someone tried to tell you, this only makes them stronger vs archons.
2 Likes
THE LIGHT TAG ISN’T BEING REMOVED, THE ARMORED TAG ISN’T BEING ADDED.
Only the biological tag would be removed.
You got to be a troll, no way someone is this stupid.
2 Likes
I think these ideas are actually not bad, some of it makes definite sense.
What I don’t agree with is the PDD for raven and the Colossus:
- the raven is kind of interesting right now and better than with pdd I think
- the colossus is sort of useful, if it has more base damage vs everything it will counter everything again (once it reaches a critical mass), we know that
The mothership i think would best be just removed from the game but whatever.
I like the phoenix and tempest ideas, as well as the feedback revert.
This might do many good things at the same time:
- make phoenix less gimicky but better in most direct fights, especially vs marines and hydras
- make tempests an option to counter mass air switches from zerg or mass viking from (which will own everythign after blizzcon patch)
- remove the tempest air range domination
1 Like
What I want added though with the blizzcon patch:
- charge should be moved to cybernetics core
Your being stupid… Hellbat openers against zerg are a thing and banes already can trade poorly against them because of their size and splitting. A bane can probably only hit 3 of them realistically.
Is there any unit in the game that doesn’t take bonus damage from something? I don’t believe so… Pls enlighten me if I’m wrong.
Oh my god, how can someone be this dense.
Banelings do bonus vs Light, not bonus vs Biological. Hellbats would still be Light after the Biological Tag was removed.
2 Likes
Don’t accuse others of being stupid when you immediately follow it up with nothing but idiotic statements and complete strawmen.
Hellbats are as vulnerable to Banelings as Marines relative to cost and supply; and they are one of the slower units to split. In practice, this usually makes Hellbats more vulnerable to Banelings than Marines because of their slower speed and lower range (Hellbats cannot damage Banelings without getting in splash range), not less.
The respective size differences are not significant, when you consider the Hellbat’s increased cost and supply and the fact that the Baneling has a radius of 2.2. If you only hit 3 Hellbats, they are split far enough apart that you would only hit 3 Marines in that same situation.
Absolutely no one suggested removing all tags from Hellbats, nor did anyone suggest removing the light tag specifically, which is the one that would actually affect Banelings, Ghosts, other Hellions/Hellbats, and Adepts.
They suggested removing one tag (the Biological Tag), which should be considered a nerf in most match-ups rather than a buff because Hellbats would lose the benefit of Medivac healing for no gain in TvT or TvZ. Even in TvP, the only Protoss unit that would deal any less damage is the Archon; whereas the loss of Medivac healing can be much more significant if the Terran players has any Medivacs.
1 Like
If I have a bias, it would be that I believe toss is the worst designed race of the three. But that opinions become convention. Some people blame warp gate, but warp gates not going anywhere. Instead I think, we should look at some of the protoss units over-tuned for their specialized roles. Specialists are co-dependent, inherently deathbally, option limiting, and weak to timings. My intention with the proposed changes was to smooth the edges of protoss’s worst offenders.
Sentry
Probably the best proposed protoss change I’ve read so far was by Crane.
This QoL buff fits nicely with improving protoss vs muta play and late game TvP (along with other applications). I’m not sure it needs tech requirements however. I think the cost is enough.
Khaydarin Matrix
- 150/150
- Requires cybernetics core
- Research time 79s
Adept
There’s been a lot of talk about adepts. The general consensus is the shield upgrade doesn’t accomplish much. Ideas of giving adepts bonus range, movement speed, or aa have been swirling. I don’t have any strong feelings as to what the adept change should be. But if this upgrade is supposed to transition the adept from early game harass unit - to zealot substitute, then the adept will likely need to lose its psionic transfer ability with the new upgrade researched. Let’s think for example, what would happen if adepts had aa and their shade ability? They could just shade under broods and snipe them. And if adepts were the “meat” of an army, they wouldn’t want to shade around and leave behind the sentry, high templar, and robo units anyway. If psionic transfer is out of the equation meaningful buffs could be on the table.
2 Likes
Well I’m glad at least one of my ideas has stuck! Thanks Heart.
If you go to the topic in question, it directs you to a couple of extension mods that allows you to test it out, one with the current rules and one with the upgrade coupled to the current test changes. It does require the Robotics Facility though, partly because I was afraid of how it might affect an all-in of some kind (plus Sentries are robotic units).
Note that the extension mods have an Oracle energy upgrade on the Fleet Beacon as well, which isn’t as inherently useful because most high-level players keep their early-game Oracle alive and don’t build others in the late-game, although someone might find a use for it (e.g. if Oracles keep getting killed because of large numbers of Corruptors, for example).
Even if PDD would last 5 seconds it’s already way to OP. PDD is bad because it can block a infinite amount of damage regardless of values (as long it has energy) so if you would spam 99999999 damage it gets absorbed as long it has energy. And that’s why it’s OP. It can absob anything as long it has energy. And this is huge since it delays your opponent ENTIRELY from doing damage for 1, 2, 5 seconds. People are already making a buzz because the BC will be stunned for 1 sec if they do a jump. Imagine being unable to do any damage for 2 to 5 seconds because of PDD. PDD’s used to win games.
Not only that, the unit is also free. Right now Winfestors are so OP because they can spam free units, Sworm Hosts where destructive during Hots because they spawned waves of free units, Free units are unhealthy and really hard to balance. (Sentry Turrets btw are healthy because they are buildings and they are really akward to place and need a lot of space).
The only way PDD could be somewhat balanced is if their energy scales with the amount of damage they can throw (so lets say, a 60 damage projectile means it costs 60 energy out of 200 energy to block it) And has a global cooldown with max 3 charges or something. AKA almost impossible to balance well.
solid changes, thanks blizzard
3 Likes
Eh sorry didnt know they were were light bio, lol could have been remedied in the first place instead of the name calling and insults. Classy.
If you bothered to read the posts you were responding to, that would have been clear to you.
You can also always look up stats on Liquipedia if you are not sure. There are only a few cases where that site is wrong about anything (such as the Widow Mine’s splash damage).
If you are still unsure, then you can open the map editor and create a “new mod” using the LOTV multi mod. This will load the latest data for multiplayer so you can check the stats there. It will take time for you to figure out weapons, abilities, effects, etc if you haven’t looked through it before though.
1 Like
Yep, my bad, I’ve looked at Liquipedia alot and know most of the unit tags, I’m P main though so more familiar with that and probably never looked at hellbats.
I don’t even play that much anymore especially lately…I’m almost 33, have always known I’m not that fast and good at the game…Been in I.T. (bought WOL), then the Army (played some HOTS multiplayer as Zerg, mostly with friends), KU (got back into the game and learned toss and went to ladder etc.), but yeah, pretty much time for me to grow up as I should have my BS in EVRN science soon and have to have a job now and all. And I like playing FPS’ (Overwatch and Apex nowdays), but yeah…won’t be gaming as much, and I think its waay better for me.
Edit: Hmm, looking at the editor now and it is quite easy and cool. Understanding it better (attack period etc is attack cooldowns, abilities linked to unit can easily move between to edit…nice, easy) just have to look around…
2 Likes
It made the terrans viable during late game
YEAH LETS MAKE TERRAN BIO EVEN MORE OBSOLETE (to main poster, but also I’m saying this semi sarcastically)
I was actually looking at the map pool this year. And Rotti mentioned he wished they would pull the best maps from the entire year into BlizzCon instead of the ones this late in the season.
It was mentioned, the reason the zerg dominated with specifically the nydus worm/Swarm Host play was because the map pool was Large maps. It makes it so much easier to abuse this tactic for zerg players.
Rogue did it. So did Dark. I think if we move away from nydus worm and swarm hosts being IMBA and start factoring in maps to these situations it would open up the idea that maybe the adjustments for nydus worm 75/75 is not so far fetched.
1 Like