Attacker advantage

General Discussion
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Its funny how Protoss has advantage of faster reinforcements even inside your main at no risk at all using only single 200 mineral unit.

That’s even cheaper than making pylon fast pylon (250). Also, unit that does it gives whole army blink (150/150), even non stalker units like immortal and collosi. Oh, and it can transport units too, just like Zerg droplord (25/25).

Soo, we have unit that does stuff 425/175 worth of resources of other stuff could do, is only drop ship costing no gas and is also fastest drop ship of them all. (Yes, even upgraded boosted medivac (Needs micro) gets outrun by upgraded prism)

Seems balanced.

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Protoss Imbalance Safety Squad headed by it’s white knight Goba will now come to explain to you that you are a “whiny terran” and yeah, everything is balanced.

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People may listen more to so-called whine posts if they weren’t exaggerating all the time, thus rendering what might otherwise be a decent argument useless.

In this case: Warp Prisms do NOT give the “whole army blink”. You can load and unload up to FOUR units at a time using a lot of micro management. FOUR is very seldom the “whole army”. With the real blink ability you can theoretically box the entirety of your Stalkers and blink them away by pressing ONE hotkey and ONE mouseclick, which is WAY easier than warp prism micro with - very often - ONE unit at a time.

I consider these discussions about warp prism possibilities to be extremely ironic.

For many years many players of the other races have complained that Protoss was easy deathball a-move gameplay with no micro needed at all - now Protoss show impeccable micro skills with warp prism and it’s immediately “abusive and broken”.

For many years many players of the other races have complained about Protoss just sitting in their bases on their lazy butts, massing units, no skill required, while the other races (especially Terran) having to harass their asses off, by multi-pronged dropping. Now Protoss make use of a viable harassment tool they have and it’s “abusive and broken” even though it has been around for a long time and an integral part of Protoss gameplay. So, you’d think people would account for the possibility of a warp prism flying into the main. But do we see units being left at home for safety reasons? Do we see more static defense at strategic points to intercept warp prisms or at least give a warning ahead of time that one is closing in to prepare for the warp-in? No, we don’t!

I’m getting so tired of spoiled people complaining about balance all the time, stating how the game “should rather be” to fit the style THEY want to play instead of accepting what it is and working on solutions.

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They still death ball, but now they have the option of recreating tankivac micro in the early game. Which everyone obviously loved so much.

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Immortals don’t do splash and they cost way more than a tank, though. You could juggle unsieged tanks using a medivac, too, if you think it’s worthwhile.

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I partially agree with you, but I feel you refuse to understand why some people are angry about warp prism. It’s not because protoss is allowed to micro and be aggressive now. It’s because warp prism is insanely powerful tool that is also easy to use. You can shift-click WP in enemy’s main, warp in a little army of zealots and forget about them. It’s very hard to deal with, especially if protoss attacks you with his main army at the same time. How is it justified? Do you think it’s alright that it’s so easy to do for protoss and so hard to deal with for opponents?
Protoss has always been able to benefit from micro with warp prism. Just with the new pickup range it’s become way easier. Parting was famous for his WP micro in WoL, actually. Now everyone can benefit from it because it’s very easy.
Now all protoss players are good at this game. Parting AKA I-am-a-simple-streamer was able to get to GSL playoffs, herO recovered his form in 2 months (which is ridiculous, if you look at Polt, Fantasy and others) after a year-long break. TY and many other players often don’t see any difference between 5.8k and 6.5k protoss players ( I witnessed his funny reaction when score screen appears after a super tough TvP quite a few times).
Protoss turtle playstyle is gone and it’s great. But thinking that we all should be happy just because protoss now play aggressively is weird.
I don’t mind protoss having some powerful tools but such tools shouldn’t be easy to use like they are now.

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And i guess, being the God-Micro-Race, that would be a walk in the park for those people…

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Edit: No one juggles unsieged tanks because medivacs don’t have 6 pickup range to give them the a saftey net against most ground anti-air and projectile attacks. Tankivacs makes up for not having the pickup saftey net by having 13 range which is more than enough to to keep a safe distance, pick off a few units, relocate before the tank takes any damage, and repeat the process.
Both abuses allow a player to overextend with very little consequence or threat of being punished for it. They are also both very good against early zerg since they still have to rely heavily on queens for early anti-air.

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I play Random, I die to Immo-Sentry-Allins, I get harassed by prism-Immo/Archon play as Zerg, I get warp-ins in my main and warp-prism-DT-harassed as Terran and the same as Protoss (and as Zerg, too).

Believe me, I DO know how frustrating it can be, when you’ve forgotten to plan ahead for the possibility.

It can also still be quite frustrating, even when you KNOW for CERTAIN, that you’re opponent will open warp-prism harassment (standard in ZvP) but you still only have slow Queens and barely enough creep to keep it at bay while still losing Drones here and there.

It still is, what it is and I don’t believe in running to Mama Blizzard to complain about how unfair life is while playing a videogame. I believe in practice, preparation and changing my gameplay rather than demanding to change the premise. I’ve started implementing more static defense at some point in the game, I’ve started playing less greedy and getting out a few additional units to deal better with early harassment (depending on the race I get).

Saying that warp-prism micro is EASY is a stretch in my opinion. Recent changes (pick-up range, speed) have made warp-prism micro EASIER, I agree, but it’s still not something that every player from Bronze to GM suddenly excels at. Judgments like these make full-time Protss players not even bother reading, because they are simplifying and disrespectful, insinuating again, that Protoss is “the easy race”.

There are many frustrating things about Starcraft when playing every race. As Protoss it’s frustrating getting Nydusrushed while only having been able to produce a max of five units so far. It’s frustrating having to defend a two-pronged drop when you’re bases are streched out, small warped-in unit sets get obliterated and your army doesn’t even reach the action before your Nexus got sniped, because it’s slow as hell and your warpgate units suck balls on their own.

It’s frustrating as Zerg to get Immo-Sentry all-inned every other game and just barely losing due to snowball effects because you’ve forgot one overlord or had 3 Hydras too few or force-fields picked you apart. It’s frustrating to see all your ecological advantage mean nothing because your creep wasn’t far enough out to keep track of that one abusive tank spot and now your third is gone because you can’t engage anymore without losing your whole gas-intensive units and thus die to the follow-up push.

SC2 is like a slap in your face on a regular basis. Dealing with frustration is an integral part for every passionate SC2 player - and the most mature way to do so is aknowledging one’s own mistakes (which there always are a ton of) and finding a way to improve.

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Another TvP low effort whine post for the books.

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This post should be moved up to the sticky-category and read each morning by every single Protoss, Zerg and Terran.
It’s time that the Moderators see and appreciate a Gem that has valuable lessons for the whole Community, and separate it from the filthy-junk that an inordinate amount of btchTerrans produce daily like puss from a purulent injury.

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I appreciate your compliments for my post, but sentences like the one above do not help to relax the already hardened fronts between players of all races in these forums. It’s important that people start focussing more on having a common interest in playing SC2 and enjoying it than focussing on arbitrary videogame racism.

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Message received. At the end of the day one can catch more flies with honey (your way) than with …vinegar (my way).
I will pass from the fourth to the third gear now…:smiley:

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I see your point, but there is one thing that you are, perhaps, missing. You see the game from a point of view of a diamond player. That’s why you say things like “I don’t complain, I prefer to improve through hard work and fix my mistakes etc etc”. I respect that, but if you was higher ranked you probably wouldn’t talk like that. I mean, you kinda missing that the things that I pointed out can get really ridiculous. Again I will talk about TY to give an example. He’s been a progamer for 10 years or so and it takes all his skill to beat a 5.8k protoss who is not even a progamer. Would you tell him “Hey, TY you just need to fix your play instead of getting upset about protoss”? I really don’t care much about my own losses to protosses.
I did not want to make you look bad because you are not 5-6k mmr player, I just want to say that it’s getting harder to simply say to yourself that you need to deal with frustration and get better as you get higher ranked. Because it gets not all about some silly mistakes that you can fix, it gets more about your physical limitations. If you lose to protoss because you get supply blocked for 2 minutes, it’s one story. It’s easy to say to yourself that you shouldn’t complain about protoss and get better in this case. But when you lose because you simply cannot click more… it’s harder to deal with frustration in this case, because then you watch a replay and see that your opponent is actually way slower than you.

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Even though you may have a point cosidering pro players, no one in here IS a pro player, so none of what wrote about affects anyone in here.

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Personally, I feel bad for pro terran players, as I said, I can deal with my own losses. I agree that whining’s got really annoying at this point, but I blame the balance team for that. They really should’ve responded somehow already.

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Despite the harsh way it was put you do have a point as I’ve said previously that WPs aren’t just the units it’s carrying it’s also the Toss’ entire gateway production this is why it’s such a dangerous unit for its cost. The unit in its original incarnation was fragile so even though it was a dangerous unit it was easier to snipe and static defence did a better job in stopping it the also wasn’t range in WOL and HOTS so the mineral only cost wasn’t an issue as the unit had its weaknesses.

Range itself should require an upgrade and a gas cost should be added to the WP as essentially having gateway production mobile anywhere on the map negates defenders advantage hence why one WP can end the game as reinforcements bypass the need to travel the map and positioning and the process of reinforcing can also be sped up with CB if need be.

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It’s depressing to see that people in a RTS think that they would improve exclusively by just clicking faster and hitting the keybord with more “energy”. The part about “thinking faster and deeper” never crossed their mind…
I noticed that in a previous post you mentioned the strategically placed Static-Defenses, a point that has a very poor coverage and overseen even in the 6800MMR department…
Unfortunately there are too many games lost from Pro-Protoss players just because they neglected to place a SB or to fortify a couple of Cannons with one SB in strategic places where they were aware that would be attacked (while having the necessary resources)…
And people complain that they can’t misuse enough their mouse/keyboard…

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I would be happy to see how “thinking faster and deeper” would help you with managing your paper army against colossi/storm/disruptors and dealing with 10 zealots in your main simultaneously. Or how you win the game having your strategically placed static defenses instead of your 4th CC (or where do you get extra minerals from? You cut your army production?).
You are just another deluded 3k mmr player that thinks he knows better how to play than top tier progamers.

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LUL, the change of meta and the new “tricks” and counter-tricks that surface each month is not proof for Your Majesty?
Case in point: after the Raven received the 30-damage AAM, one of your (because you have 80% of Pro-Players like that) Star-Whiner - Special, complained weeping profusely that no one would ever build that “useless, stupid” Raven…

A week later, Maru exterminated countless Zerg/Protoss deathballs with the Mass-useless Ravens and got a … GSL…