So I remember when they first came out in heart of the swarm. They could be pretty deadly as they were faster off creep and also came with all of the upgrades that require a lair now. However my experience these days hasn’t been that good when I tried them.
Against terran.
Now to be fair, I don’t think lurkers were ever really good in this match up unless the opponent was braindead, but terrans have scans and often just get siege tanks or liberators. More often then not it seems like a waste.
Against protoss.
They often use air units anyway and lurkers can’t attack air. However I have found use for it when someone is doing mass stalkers as it tends to stall the game if they are placed at a choke point, but even here I often just find stalkers just either avoid them or blink around them.
Against Zerg
The problem I run into when trying to use these vs zerg is that they seem too expensive for what they are worth. They cost a hydra plus 100 vespene and can’t attack air and zerg tend to very aggressive and either just go around them. Like with protoss though, it does seem good for stalling the game at times.
Whine Tearans whined them away. They used to be able to go toe to toe with tanks. Game killing whine tearans like whine marine made sure that wouldn’t stay.
You saw what the crybaby game killers did to the ultralisk. It was good for a couple months. Crythanias and his ilk won’t let zerg or protoss have anything.
Again, these no skill crybabies want to be able to press T on the same 2 units all game, while being healed, and beat anything the other 2 races can offer.
It’s why the game’s dead. Losers like Batz that actually sides with the whiners doesn’t even realize he helps kill the game.
Doesn’t play the game anymore, but will still make whine threads. NJ killing game, Champ!
Yes, Lurkers are a good unit.
Not as great as they were in Brood War, but Lurkers are what Swarm Hosts set out to replace, and so massively failed at it (SHs were broken OP when released, but quickly got nerfed to irrelevance).
Lurker is OP in TvZ since Terran have no counters to it.
Current meta is to kill Zerg before Lurkers are out in significant numbers. Kinda like at LotV release when meta was to kill Zerg before Ultralisk are out, but worse.
You don’t play the game, or you are really bad at playing the game. Tanks make sure that Lurkers can’t get the drop on the terran army and terran thins the lurker count with snipes, a hard counter in the most literal sense. That’s not to say lurkers aren’t a good unit, it’s probably the best unit Z has after the Viper, but to say they have no counters is laughable.
Not to mention they can’t hurt anything that is air based and if you make too many of them and your opponent does a quick swap to air, you will likely run into problems.
In large numbers they can be pretty effective, though it’s more of a hail mary play in some cases. Vipers are also very helpful in bringing out their full potential. They can also be used to defend expansions from small drops.
In large numbers, they are highly effective against ground-based armies. And because of this, Protoss eventually has to transition to air. They are extremely useful in ZvP.
What are you talking about? They are a core unit in Zerg’s late game composition against other Zergs. Complete nonsense.
Swarm hosts are still broken. The reason why you don’t see a lot of Terran mech is because of swarm hosts. And if you want a free win against Protoss assuming they aren’t allin or all air, you make swarm hosts. Guaranteed victory. Roach swarm host.
Exactly
Plenty of counters…
You should have some idea of an incoming air swap. If anything Zerg is the fastest at making huge army composition changes. You can scout a Terran for something like mass starport/tech labs and Protoss for mass stargates.
Swarm hosts suck hard nowadays, the locusts evaporate against mech and bio just runs away. Against toss, they can’t shoot up so they’ve become obsolete.
TvZ they are alright, but I still remember all the whining from Terrans last year crying op because there was one player (Reynor) that was destroying everyone with them, while the rest were failing miserably (Solar and Rogue got a few solid games here and there). Nowadays it is still good, but Terrans have pretty much figured out how to deal with them, and even Reynor, who is by far the best lurker player, now hates the unit in this matchup.
ZvP, they are actually really good until skytoss hits the field, IF you pair them with vipers to deal with disruptors. Unfortunately, due to the lame changes to Protoss in the last patch, Toss is now skipping ground altogether and rushing Skytoss which is why they are not used as often as before. But let’s face it, nowadays for Zerg this MU is a desperate struggle to kill P before they achieve their ultimate fleet, and sadly it looks like this is the way its going to be forever.
In ZvZ, like in ZvP lurkers rule the ground if you get there, but this MU is so hectic, that in reality teching towards it leaves you open to simply dying to a roach push or mutas. So you barely ever see them as it means getting hydras and reducing your roach production.
As it stands they are a good unit, but that’s about it, personally I think they need no buffs or nerfs whatsoever.
Yea like I was saying. Even with range up grade lurkers tend to be hard counters by tanks especially since the terran will likely have scans and maybe even ravens.
LOL, you can’t nerff Zealot, Imortal (cost), WP (cost + range) and expect Protoss to engage with Ground.
Add to that the FF/Ravager interaction (opening the path for Banes) and the excessive counters (air) to Colossus.
Protoss simply do what is required to not die to a Build-Order (not going Air is a Build-Order failure) loss.
I am afraid that IT was sacrificed for the sake of PvZ (not that the usual terran suspects did not whine profusely).
The morons castrated FB and allowing the Infestors to be easily massed.
The idiots instead of leting the IT be and reverting the FB nerff, tried to fix the mess of their own doing with the …removal of IT.
I am all for the return of IT and full-force FB (with the revert of the +1 Range).
ZvP lurkers are super strong vs ground Protoss. Especially when paired with Vipers pure ground vs ground in late game is Zerg favored for sure. But that is counteracted with sky toss being extremely powerful. Which is lame. I would prefer if disruptors were stronger vs Lurker viper like the disruption ball will not get cancelled by a viper abduct, only killing it will cancel the disruptor shot. Rather than carrier shenanigans, Disruptor getting buffed this way should be sufficient to help toss in lategame pure ground vs ground.
Anyways ZvP voidrays have fallen out of fashion due to the potency of queen allins. one being at 5:30 which is extremely extremely hard to defend. I’ve always thought queens in general were low key overpowered vs Protoss in particular but Zerg does not have any good anti air in lair early to midgame other than queens which is lame in terms of game design imo. Anyway back to ZvP, the strongest playstyle now is 2/3 oracle into Stalker disruptor into Carrier lategame. This playstyle was first introduced by Stats in Stay at home story cup. where he 3-0 ed Serral in an extremely convincing series… The 3-0 win over Serral was one of the best PvZ performances I’ve seen in a looong time. Honestly I like where the meta is heading at the pro level. When I compare Stats and other Tier 2/3 EU Protosses that try to emulate this I can clearly see that the Tier 2/3 EU tosses look slower, their timings are 2 mins late. Army movement is worse. The 2/3 oracle into Stalker disruptor style does not look that easy to play well its just Stats is fundamentally a very strong player that made it look far easier than it actually is.
Trap as well played like this in a recent series where he won 1-0 vs Serral. He looked sharp in the PvZ. Compared to drogo or GungFu man the skill difference is extremely apparent.
Now they, do not, Libs siege is too slow, Lurker will re-position easily.
Disruptor have longer range than Siege Tank and Lurker can siege 5 times faster than ST.
If you get your Lurkers countered by either of these units you must be Gold League player.
This is exclusively your L2P issue.
Its also have a lot to do with Bane +5 hp buff that let banes to roll through Storms.
Its ridiculous how this interaction was not even considered when this anti-Buyn buff was added into the game.