Yeah true. There are genuinely different floors, and some commanders that might be weak mishandled all can do great in proper hands or with team synergies. But i do remember a humorous incident where i had a game where someone was bragging about their “high skill” commander and trashing another… They were literally playing a 14 apm Nova where their highest apm peak was (literally) the part where they built workers for 20 apm lmao while the “low skill” commander was hovering 80-110 apm.
They were playing move command siege tanks, walking through fire without even firing and only issuing a command about average 3-4 seconds. Their ally had to constantly heal them and move around them to protect their allys from dying, but then in the next que.
A different player on the same commander used them as a f2a meatshield and beat brutal on 20 apm lol.
I feel like there’s definitely a lot of times where individual player play makes a huge difference. Like being outspeeded by a average Karax who has slow tech or mostly defensive options is pretty hard to do if you’re competent and using a fast commander like a Dehaka/Tychus/Zeratul imo. But lots of people are really petty on the que.
I don’t have any problems playing Abathur, Raynor or p2 Karax (love armies), at all, but often times my ally will take one look at a commander choice and leave, even if it’s just a 1000 K : 200 K difference to my main to a 600-800 K : 150-400 K differences or 1:1s.
As far as things goes, i feel honestly like a lot of general commanders feel like one trick f2a deathball armies. I am definitely aware the commander i love to play has f2a movers who pick a crappy Nikara and let their tychus die 247 times lmao. But i haven’t had a problem with a Abathur either outside of hitting rocks or if it’s a early air wave that flew over the nests and my ally is like literally one of those people who idles heros at 14 apm where their highest apm peak is (literally) building workers to the 20 apm you get casually making workers lmao. (the 20 apm building workers is actually LITERALLY some 10-14 apm brutal players peak.
Like f2a move afk siege tank nova (14 apm likely indicates no/low ability use).
That isn’t to say that the tools in the hands of a skilled player couldn’t multiply the effectiveness of a poor vs great commander by MILES, everyone knows they can. Just… You can have the sharpest tools in the world, and a idiot who still bangs the toolbox on their head at 14 apm at (literal 1 f2a move command per 4 seconds) where building workers is the peak of their apm is… How they’re playing brutal on their ‘hard commanders’ (barely moving, reacting, learning comps or building complete dogcrap random builds like techless 0 research everythings lmao)
I think the funny thing is, the literal 10-14 apm build people still often still win half their missions, just since like people get outrageously defensive on coop, but outside of poor map picks like lvl 1 swann + lvl 1 karax on brutal, no ARES bots, no decent early units mark, immediate death if they can’t kill a shard within a timer. I think most commanders can handle it.
(Summary)
Yeah, I agree, I feel like for general play, a lot of the best allies can come to being a good partner and using player skill. You can see lots of people playing a [Skill recommended] commander at… 14 apm.
Or easy commanders with say, 9 keybind groups for quick research, army, mind control armies, etc. Or you can play it at f2a move afk 10 apm.
Personally i love playing a mind controlled army at one point and a microed main army at another while pushing a third spot with a dogwalker while simultaneously keeping tabs of each group’s hp, as well as healing their ally, while placing vision scvs at tactical points.
I also enjoy setting chain fires with blaze and setting entire places on fire or just stacking a normal ultimate army with Abathur watching everything endgame basically die for free to his like… barely costed kidnaps, 15 second cd tunnels, and tanky ultimates that people bail on solely because they leave on que even if you’d at least still own your own outkilling them 600-700 : 150-300 fine with a Abathur, dehaka, p2 Karax or ordinary Raynor. But beyond just kills, i like making sure my ally always has the chance to do stuff that’s fun for them.
So I often individually micro my healer off to go heal them off when low while unit shuffling the damaged units so my ally can play at 100% hp while also watching their bases and keeping my units from dying.
I don’t think there’s many commanders that people consider impossible to level lvl 1 if the player is good enough. Honestly i feel like… Lvl 1 swann without… ARES bots is… uh… (kinda seems weaker at expanding or defending the first wave or early attack without a cd?) But… Many people will endorse lvl 1 swann and say if you know him, he’s easier for them to level. So knowing your commander well and how to work with your ally can be one of the strongest things you can do imo.
Yeah, i agree, individual players or skill levels/playstyle can drastically change the list.
I actually find Tychus’s support (incredibly powerful aoe healing, researchable aoe fear = less dmg / psuedo healing, and his tanky setup or dropping tanks such as Cannonballs or Dogwalker odins into squshy armies like Han and Horner reaper armies enable them to quickly SHRED many objectives, minibosses, and the like actually one of the interesting mini comps.
On paper, a Tychus + Han and Horner has no synergy. On practice, while i wouldn’t go for it, the combination of incredibly sturdy units + aggro tanking (tychus) + extremely powerful glass cannon dps combined with 2 second grenade stuns, Sirius aoe fears, ± unit tanking or parking… Its not needed, but it can be a surprisingly base melting combination. Most of Han and Horner’s units are known as like Glass cannons with insanely high dps… When the enemy units are stuck in a Sirius aoe fear or a facetank Cannonball, it’s like the equivilent of handcuffing Amon (stuns), while he’s being eaten alive by Hornets.
There’s not supposed to be synergy between handcuffs (HealBrawly stuns) and Hornets(BIG PAIN, swattable hp)… but if you can’t swat the bees, it can be pretty hilarious just seeing how fast everything dies and explodes in seconds in a stunlock.
Tl;dr: Got off on a bit of a tangent. But yeah, agree! Individual playstyles and players themselves can warp things greatly. A non p1 kerrigan that never builds a nydus is still kerrigan, but missing certain things. A person can have a great toolkit with hundreds of tools, but use it to bang themselves on the head over and over.
(Ex: Some commanders f2a move or (CAN) have intensive micro (full mule + micro marines +- Vulture spawncamping groups vs mass f2a into siege fire) or biomass luring / eating strats.
Others just.. their 'complicated' gameplay is..
learning NOT to build a sucky build and then just..
f2a moving at 14-50 apm with 'great SKILL' tm lecturing
the other people with 90-150.. outside
of frivolous inputs for sake of inputs.)