PvP cannon rush is by far the least favorite interaction this game has. It’s not enjoyable to watch, and it’s not enjoyable to play against. I suppose the only enjoyment gotten out of it is the people doing the cannon rushing.
People who do nothing but cannon rush have been able to do the exact same strategy for YEARS, at this point I would hope they’d beat someone who faces it maybe one in every ten games… Lol I know if I did the same VIABLE strategy for years I’d probably beat the majority of people too.
Anyways, a simple fix for cannon rushing is to make the forge require a cyber… No one ever gets a forge before cyber in a normal game anyways. I feel this would fix this toxic gameplay issue.
Yes I know there are other threads on this topic, I just wanted to get my point across. THIS IS NOT FUN FOR ANYONE.
What’s about 3 proxy barracks into bunker rush? Is it fun to watch or play against? Players like Innovation after losing the first map, are able to play proxy barracks against Rogue 4 times in a row and win 3-2. Please don’t tell me that 3 proxy barracks require a god micro.
I suppose that’s true to an extent, though I dont really see people respond to a 12 pool with a forge in masters +
Though if that’s a concern, even making a gateway be the requirement for the forge would make a lightyear difference when it came to pvp cannon rushing
I just want cannon rushing not be a viable build in pvp due to the fact it’s very one dimensional and boring/infuriating to play against.
Honestly could just do a lighter touch and do gateway before forge. Preserves some cannon stargate builds and only hits a forge fitst build which is always a cannon rush. It’s such a toxic problem in pvp I have no idea how it’s still a thing.
Harstem did a series on holding the rushes but it’s intense game knowledge and micro and even then he, an actual pro player knowing a cannon rush was coming, still lost several times until he had practiced enough against it.
All of PVP is toxic and the cannon rush is just the most obvious indicator of the races bad design and should have been fixed years ago.
Personally, I have fun watching it, and defending it. It’s a micro + knowledge war, where good and measured defense most often translates into at least a tech advantage to the defender, if not an economical one. I don’t see in which way it would be broken, nor unfun, though having it doable with a single worker is certainly a feature the protoss do have.
And I think considering the amount of people following Printf or Cripseil, and the reactions upon Has or Parting canon rushing, that I’m not the only one having fun spectating those in tournaments.
That would make it the longest tech path to get static detection. No reason to weaken P in such way.
I’m not sure this is true in most cases, especially after the void buff. A well done cannon rush should deny the natural and often allows the attacker to proxy void battery as fast or faster than the defender can get to the same tech. Harstem’s video showed the level of skill a pro needed just to defend and even he ended behind in the majority of games knowing it was coming. Again, this is a PRO player.
Honestly I’d say it would be good to make this rush obsolete not because it’s so terrible and unstoppable but it’s the only thing a lot of people are doing. They already make the bunker require Barracks long ago and they stopped some stupid rushes. I think they need to do it with the cannon too, except it needs to require gateway and not core. This way all 3 races wouldn’t be able to just spam something stupid.
In the lower leagues it’s most likely really irritating as it seems a lot of noobs are only doing this every single game.
The ability required to defend it is proportional to the ability of the one setting it up ; with some twists :
it’s more powerful unscouted
And more powerful vs Z and P than T.
If you scout it and are skillful enough to know how to prevent or counter full wall setup with workers, there’s no way the canon rusher will manage to transition every time. However, as it’s considered as subpar strategy by most pro level gamers, it happens that some of them do not know how to defend it, or do know but don’t bother scouting it. And so we see more frequently strategies to counter the canon rush when it’s in place (and thus can transition), rather than to preventing it getting in place.
If you couldn’t ever prevent a canon rush from transitionning, then players wouldn’t see it as subpar, and we’d see a lot of them in PvP as well. Currently, I don’t recall having ever seen one in PvP nor PvT past GM level. Which indicates how much faith players who can canon rush have in this strat compared to regular ones.
It’s fun ! Honestly, most of then don’t even know how to setup full walls properly , and most of the time are unable to micro 2 probes simultaneously. And then you finally get a game where’ll you be able to bully the protoss for a bit.
This is very wrong. Many people still do forge expand. And in all matchups. There is a poster called playa. Who got gm by making 1 cannons. In tvp at terrans natural. XD XD XD
While I do appreciate your feedback, is there anyway you could stop using XD XD XD on everything you post on the forums? 2012 called and they want their XD back
Cannon rush is insanely powerful. In PvP at the higher level (M1+), you have no choice but to play along, make your own cannons, and then play voidray laser lance fight until one of you cracks. This isn’t fun for anyone, it’s not fun to watch, it’s not fun to play against, and it’s super easy to pull off. You’re pretty much just fighting with your workers against static defense that get guaranteed value for every worker you pull to break down the defenses.
In PvZ, unless the Zerg is going super early pool, they can’t contest the cannon rush. It’s just not possible. From there, we all know what happens. It just becomes painful game play for the Zerg to try and crack a bunch of skill batteries and immortals with a warp prism. I don’t know how anyone can watch this and find it entertaining. It really isn’t fun to watch someone win off an easy strategy to execute.
At least in TvP, the Terran can get a marine and bunker up in time to stop the cannon rush. They don’t even have to pull workers. Terrans are the only ones very well-equipped to dealing with cannon rush and its follow ups.
Even in team games cannon rushing is broken. Mix in how powerful it is with poor map design and you have one person capable of setting behind 2-4 players significantly in the first 3 minutes of the game. Everyone knows how cringy it is when someone cannon rushes.
I would say cannon rush is one of the silent killers of this game. I’m willing to bet at least 1000 players have rage quit just because of cannon rush, and most likely never came back to play SC2. It hurts 1v1 and every team game.
I know they’re never going to remove this strategy. That’s why I’m never going to play 1v1 seriously again. Count me out.
Unfortunately, Blizzard developers and balance team are not smart enough to realize that Cannon Rush is overpowered and frustrating to play against, specially on the PvP matchup.
To make things worse, blizzard team is drown in the delusion that Cannon Rush is a part of SC2 personality and history. It is a shame.
One thing to consider with Cyber as a requirement is that you could sometimes end up in a situation where your one Cybercore is sniped, and you wish to smack down a forge and a cyber at once but can’t.
Gateway as a requirement is probably enough, and as someone else mentioned also preserves some forge expand builds out there.
So while I personally quite enjoy some of the weirdly creative cannonrush games I’ve played (always on the receiving end) I am inclined to agree that Gate before Forge as a requirement would be a good idea.
I’m not as opposed to Cannon rushes as I was in HotS. It’s basically the only good equivalent to a Bunker rush or early Pool at that stage of the game, and also I’m personally able to counter most of them unless the opponent is crazy good at it – gimme that tech lead! However, a long time ago I suggested Cannons require a Cyber Core. That’s enough of a delay that I don’t believe you’d still need a Forge to build them if you wanted to thwart Cannon rushes. Would need to see the balance impact that comes from better defensive options at the Cyber Core stage of the game in builds that don’t have an early Forge, though (another reason I suggested this in the past was because of the weirdness surrounding Gateway-tech defense leading to Protoss going for all-ins and needing the MSC, the first of which is less of an issue in LotV and the latter of which no longer exists).
Forge require cyber or gateway
Would seriously fix
They could even make cannons build faster or stronger to compensate or something stupid - if they actually wanted to keep cannon entrenchments
A compensation would not be necessary anyway, I bet alot of toss mains are sick of being cannon rushed by random-tosses anyway
Cannon rush is viable well into grandmaster but requires a much lower degree of game-knowledge to successfully execute compared to a normal macro game
The mere fact that cannon rushing FORCES you to make a drastic response and thus takes away any initiative you might’ve had is very cancerous
I promise you NOBODY WILL MISS IT!!
