I saw somebody make the point that without Karax’s cost reduction mastery eliminating his unit tax, they can now balance his units power around a consistent cost, and make the masteries more competitive with each other in the long run. Im willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, for now.
1 Like
Definitely this! WMs are fun units, and I have long wanted the gas cost removed or traded away in favor of being pure mineral sinks, so this is one of my favorite changes of the patch.
1 Like
Yes, if you F2 and want to fly your reapers you don’t have to tab away from the widow mines anymore.
1 Like
Overall I think the changes move in the right direction. Thanks for continuing to improve the game.
3 Likes
The resident Alarak main has arrived. …Not that I’m anything to really be excited over.
I’ll break down every bit of the patch as I see it now.
–Abathur
Ravagers are insanely strong now. Spammable 100 damage nukes that pierce units. They were viable before, now they’re just silly.
–Alarak
Vanguards are a little better, but I’d still rather have the rays increase than a simple AoE increase.
Wrathwalkers are actually REALLY fast at attacking now. Considering that the “charge up” time is a part of the attack cooldown, it’s just… Wow. They hit hard and fast. Alarak/Supplicant/Havoc/Wrathwalker is a very viable build now.
–Fenix
Nice to see the Disruptor buffs. Not much to comment on.
–Han & Horner
Lowered cost on Galleons means that not only do they come out faster in numbers, but each one built is an extra SCV or Reaper produced. I actually like this change a lot.
Imaging Radar increase… I don’t know how to feel about this. A 15 range increase lets them sit further behind… But I don’t know if they really needed it.
Widow Mine cost change is nice, though. This will help tremendously on maps like Dead of Night, where you can support your allies’ defenses with a pair of Mines without losing any gas for upgrades/Horner units.
–Karax
Oh boy, the meat and potatoes of this patch.
80% increased life is actually something you shouldn’t take lightly. Yes, his units are exceptionally expensive… But now they have a reason to be. They’re so much bulkier than before, which makes him less susceptible to AoE spells and damage. Mass Immortal/Energizer is a legit strat now with both the HP buffs and the Shadow Cannon buffs. Go ahead, give it a try.
Not much to say on the Purifier Beam and cost reductions. They’re mostly to get things going a bit quicker.
–Kerrigan
Not much to say here. They’re just trying to bring Brood Lords into the viabiliy fold.
–Mengsk
Not much to say on the Sky Fury changes. Phoenix Protocol only procs when the Sky Fury would die, so that’s mostly irrelevant. Evasive Maneuver dodge might actually be a bit scary. A 1 in 2 chance to just shrug a hit off is nothing to scoff at.
Having our Afterburners back is actually a massive QoL change. This means you can actually micro your Intercessors while they’re loaded now, on top of moving your slow heavy ordinance from place to place.
Fixing the Emperor’s Shadow’s EMP is actually a bigger deal than one thinks. You can now make the Shadows as a core unit for every composition, as you can EMP away Protoss Shields, unit Energy, and Hybrid Shields + Energy. Mixing in Pyrokinetic Blast, and you have one hell of a support unit.
–Stukov
Bunker play is back. At the cost of 100 additional minerals than the original, you still get more supply than you are technically supposed to have. Rejoice, Bunker players.
Some minor changes to the Diamondbacks. I was never a fan of either Stukov play but… Meh. Enjoy it.
–Swann
Haven’t gotten around to playing around with him yet this patch. No gas Armories is very good, as that saves you 200 gas in the long haul for more tech or units.
Magfield Accelerator now makes Cyclones crazy powerful. Cyclone/Hellion/Hellbat play, or Cyclone support should be seen more now. (and rightfully so. I enjoy using them as supports or cores.)
Barrage Cannon is still pretty bad. 57 second downtime.
Wraith Pulse Amp is actually more consistent now, which is very good.
–Vorazun
Small buff to Dark Archon play. Unless you’re paired with someone who uses a lot of spells, this change won’t do much.
–Zagara
Bile Launcher buffs. Not much to comment on here.
–Zeratul
They listened. They actually listened. We all knew that the 250 > 400 mineral cost nerf on the Tesseract Cannons was too much. 300 is far more respectable now. Cannons are still down in power, but they’re probably now in a decent spot.
–Nova
It’s good to see they’ve been watching us and heard our complaints about the Ghost priority issues. Now it’s much easier to play Nova with easier tabbing access to EMPs.
Overall, I’m quite happy with this patch. My only gripes are with Alarak’s Vanguards (and subsequently his Destroyers), and Karax’s unit pricings. Vanguards could use with more rays (more rays = more damage!), Destroyers could have a little more oomf to their splitter attacks, and Karax’s units now need a uniform pricing put on them. (and I don’t mean a flat cost reduction, just not making the Mineral/Gas costs sit at a random number like 337.)
3 Likes
Still things to fix
Han Horner: galleons needs to Heal themselves like other combat units
Zagara: needs Regenerative Acid and Better corruptors
Zerg Heroes Coccoon would be nice queens can spawn them faster with auto Transfusion (they are able to but has no effect).
Kerrigan: Improve Chain Reaction and Mastery 3.2 (I am standing by this change), Also can Broodlord Inherit Rapid regeneration
Tychus: Medivac Regeneration must stay even the crews are hit
Mengsk: Increased Nuke range for SoE
Dehaka: Fix Creeper to target Air to ground units such as Banshee and Broodlords (they mostly ignore the over other units), Also have them damage Friendly Units (they just don’t).
Stukov: Burrow mech units so they can Regen.
2 Likes
No, just no with a side of hell to the naw naw naw
This would be okay. But the cost reduction makes them slightly better.
Regenerative acid wouldn’t do much for her army. Better Corruptors would be nice, though.
No. The Heroes are a main focus, but they aren’t the only focus. They’re on a timer for a reason.
Would be fine with having a better Chain Reaction, but Augmented Immobilization Wave is fine where it is. It doesn’t need any improvements.
No, this doesn’t need to happen. The reason that they made that change was to make the Medivac Pickup into a defensive option for healing, rather than an offensive option. If you’re having problem with heals, choose Nikara or Rattlesnake.
Learn to use Labrynth Cloak to run in and drop the nukes.
- No fixing required. They pick their targets based on what can hit them first. Banshees can’t hit air, so they pick something that can first.
- Hell no to them splashing onto allied units. If you made that change, you’d have to make it to every other splash unit in the game.
No.
1 Like
Kevin declared “We’ll reduce an initial ramp time of weak commanders” but still I can’t get it from this note.
Especially in case of Karax, reducing some upgrade cost “50/50” is that all? Even not all upgrade but just part of them? Why solarite upgrade is missing in a list of cost reduction? 200/200, 250/250, 300/300 resources should be invested for this upgrade and this is very fundamental upgrade of Karax. The fleet beacon building needed for final solarite upgrade even costs 300/200. This really slow down the ramp time of Karax but why dosen’t dev touch that? While removing gas cost of armory of swan?
If Karax produce his expensive units just 2 or 3 without cost reducing mastery , the reduced upgrade cost will be just disappear.
Col 390/260
Mirage 195/130
Immortal 325/130
Carrier 455/325
Such a horrible “reinforcing the identity of master phasesmith” huh, “Reforged” would be correct term.
4 Likes
yep agreed
Not really no, it would help the aberrations and Other biological Zerg Units that your partner has. Would be cool Zagara can heal allies too!
Hmmm, how can we make Corruptor Better?
If it takes Half or All Energy from Queen to revive a Hero, that wouldn’t be a problem. If Dehaka can provide lots of Drones, and Nova ample Minerals, Surely we can do it with Queens.
(Now Alarak? hmmmm)
No problem with Immobilization waves I’m talking about Ability and Attack speed Increase.
I just want to play super strong Kerrigan Solo. You know just for varieties sake.
You got a point there.
It doesn’t give me much chance to deal damage in deep areas, But I suppose whittling enemy base little by little is also fun.
It doesn’t used to do that, Creepers always killed air units foremost including banshees until Patch 4.10
Also, They Creepers used to deal single damage to allied units not Splash damage.
YES
Why? - Because Stukov mech units have slow regen, quite vulnerable and bringing SCV all the time is a bugger. Make it 1.5 per regen at full mastery then.
How many other Zerg commanders use melee, or near-melee ranged units? Kerrigan and Stettmann. Stettmann is the only one who really likes to use his Zerglings, and Kerrigan is… Well, semi-melee. Smart players will wait for the Zagara to run in with her units first before coming in as a support. Regenerative Acid will do nothing. Thus, the change won’t be meaningful at all.
As for the Corruptors, I’m not sure. I really don’t know what to do to improve them. I just know that they’re lacking.
Okay, and on most commanders, Queens aren’t really seen. Those that can produce them (Kerrigan, Abathur, Zagara) either don’t have a hero coccoon (Abathur) or would rather just have more Hatcheries to use for supply and production (Kerrigan, Zagara). You really shouldn’t be losing your Hero if you’re paying attention. Alarak wouldn’t benefit from anything related to this, as his Supplicants are either for him to eat in an emergency, used for tanking, or used for his Ascendants to eat. There’s no room for negotiations on this.
Kerrigan Solo is already a thing. Ability Damage is the preferred option. If you merge Ability Damage and Attack Speed, then Kerrigan becomes stupidly strong. The balance is already a bit out of whack, but they’re trying to reign it in a bit I feel. Don’t make the problem worse.
Shadow only isn’t really that viable of a build, I’m sorry to say. They’re a support unit. Their improved EMPs make them super good, but you shouldn’t rely on them as a solo unit. You use Labrynth Cloak to get in, drop some unchanneled tactical nukes, and get out.
If you want to play with them alone, then you’ll need to learn to pay attention to them and micro them correctly.
That must have happened before I was around, as I do not ever remember them doing that. They shouldn’t be doing that, as no abilities or attacks currently splash onto allies. It’s a pointless “addition”.
As for air priority vs ground priority, it might be a spacing issue, or probably still a “Can this unit shoot me?” priority. 90% sure it’s the latter. If you send a swarm of flying Locusts at a ball of Marines and Banshees, they will hit the Marines first, as the Marines can hit them. Banshees cannot.
No. After the fixes put in, you’re actively gimping Stukov again. Giving him basically no options on various maps and on various mutations. Normally I’m not one for taking mutations into consideration for balance, but Stukov feels really weak, regardless of the style you play. Learn to deal with toting SCVs around. You have to do it as Han & Horner to keep your Galleons healthy.
1 Like
Oh man, do I love how Fenix’s Disruptors have increased priority now… and this is merely only scratching the surface, on top of more leniency for the Infested Bunker and Tesseract Cannon changes. Can’t wait to try out all the commanders.
Whew more Broodlord love for Kerrigan, tbh I feel like her Broods are slept on especially after the double damage they gave them a while back
For me, the changes are a step in the right direction.
But there’s still some work to do…
…Zagara’s Corruptors missing out again. Again.
2 Likes
Some guides deem lv1 to be “must get”. Lv2 is “Ok”, but lv3 only in niche situations.
For me, Lv2 is “must get”, but Lv3 I only get on longer maps (those that take over 20 to 24 minutes)
Alternatively, the Robotics Bay also unlocks the ability to research lv3 Spear Of Adun, and that only costs 150/150
You forgot Dehaka and besides they can be for Protoss warriors as well (except for Karax and Fenix). Banelings have wide explosion after upgrade so they can be a nice help. Also Like I said if Zagara Banel abilities also affected by regenerative acid, she can use it to heal other units and bio buildings (if enabled) manually.
I got this Revival idea because Queens can use Transfusion on Hero Cocoons although it doesn’t do anything.
Yeah I done Kerrigan Solo multiple times. With Omega for mobility + Queen for healing right?
I can Tear Zerg Roach compo, Terran Bio compo, Protoss Dark to shreds but NOT for other Composition. You are going to say Immobilisation Aura but what if you use them on bad timing while you going on razing enemies for necessary objective but how do you deal with Enemy wave that is coming for you while your wave is cooldown? Immoblisation is powerful but Kerrigan MUST have some necessary ability up to deal with enemy waves else your enemies will go quickly take her back to Cocoon, I can have Kerrigan Quickly teleport to base and Queens heal her but one wrong move you are DEAD. My Defence Towers will whittle them down but I prefer to put up “some” fight and live rather than going back to my coccoon 2 brutal seconds later.
Besides Kerrigan already is powerful but not powerful enough to take on most composition in my opinion.
You Know what? How about enabling ALL Mech Units to borrow so they can regenerate like Roaches. They heal for 2Hp or 3Hp. No change in Mastery.
Thanks for so many good changes but Karax pushing power was not among them. 
Keep up the good work.
I’m glad they reverted that dumb Stukov bunker nerf. Between that and the Diamondback upgrades, I think that will do a lot to give him a wide variety of viable and fun playstyles. I was… pretty harsh on the nerf admittedly, thanks for reconsidering it Blizz.
Karax changes are… interesting. I love the concept, but need more experience with the changes to see how I feel about them in practice. I do think that even if the values aren’t ideal, it is a major step in the right direction and much easier to balance him around a coherent identity rather than his masteries and design being at odds with each other.
Alrak’s mech got some much needed upgrades, REALLY like how they came out. As someone who prefers mech playstyle, I’m glad they didn’t just nerf ascendants into the ground and chose to make mech more competitive instead - that way everyone gets to be happy! Still not sure this makes Vanguards GOOD, but at least it’s a step in the right direction, and they’re definitely more usable.
H&H changes generally don’t do much for me (not bad, not amazing) but Spooder Mines no longer costing gas opens up a LOT of options - I love those bloody things in general and not having to cripple my gas income to use them will make it a lot more fun to do weird stuff with them. Great move there!
Swann changes are admittedly a little less than I had hoped for, but I can’t complain about what got buffed, they play into the commander’s fantasy and help his earlygame out a bit. Cyclones actually seem pretty legit now, I wasn’t a huge fan before but they weren’t THAT far from being good, now I think they are a lot more viable. Still not a fan of the stupid gimmick move-fire Wraiths, they seem a little less annoying to micro but it’s still nonsensical; I don’t think they fit Swann in the first place and trying to enforce the minigame seems even weirder.
Zeratul changes… admittedly, I’m not sure how I feel. 400 was an insane overnerf, but I was ok with them getting taken down a bit. That said, I don’t mind him having a brainless turret build, it’s not one I ever used often since I don’t find it fun, and I’m certainly not complaining about them un-screwing him.
As someone who used to play a lot of Nova and partially stopped because they kept screwing up Ghost selection priority… thanks, Blizz. Biggest and best change she could have gotten. She’s in a great place balance wise imo, little QoL stuff like that is perfect.
Vorazun energy regen actually seems interesting - gonna have to play with it more - it doesn’t LOOK insane but I feel like that actually helps her a lot, and makes her team synergy better to boot.
After some of the… highly questionable recent balance patches, I’m very relieved to see one that mostly makes minor but meaningful changes in a positive way, rather than ruining things. Yes, nerfs are sometimes inevitable and necessary, but not in the way they hit bunkers and cannons.
1 Like
Im so excited.
That looks all like its going in the right direction. All the mimimi for Karax´s bad design was heard and he got at least the “biggest” portion of this remake. If good or not will be seen in the near future.
Im personally very hyped for Swanns wraiths. I liked the design and the micro you needed to get them at least somewhat good.
With the redesign of detecting even small movement it could potentially be a very good dps unit finally.
Often times ranged, especially vs air compositions. He also has his own built-in healing abilities.
Not meant to do anything. The reason that Dehaka has access to faster revive, is because primal combat is based on killing and devouring to get stronger. While he’s injured, he literally eats his drones to restabilize and restore his strength. As for Nova… I really can’t say much. It’s probably because of something related to her being core or fragile or something. Zagara and Kerrigan don’t really need this.
Kerrigan should be able to deal with most ground-based compositions. The only things she really struggles against are Reaver/Disruptor heavy compositions, and air.
You learn when you should be timing your Immo Wave. See previous response.
Then you aren’t piloting her correctly.
This would be fine.