I’ve noticed that both Master and GM and low leagues zergs are continuing to make 2 base all ins, very often.
At the beginning it was just annoying, now I can see why they do it, it is really strong even if you scout it, and even if you defend which is really hard, zerg with some dmg can macro out of it.
Find really hard to believe that the Race, has the best Macro, best Tech Flexibility, best Economy, and Best Vision. Needs strong 2 base all ins, that destroys Protoss and Terran any Eco/Macro build that only helps them to get to a normal Mid Macro game against the Zerg.
Your opinions on this.
Please let’s keep it, a nice conversation, if 2 base all ins can be counter easily with T and P, let me know.
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I find 2-base Zerg attack really easy to beat.
Just open 1-1-1 while expanding with a fast safety tank. If he goes early roach/ravager make banshee otherwise BC.
I can not even remember the last time I lost against something like a 2-base baneling bust or 2-base roach ravagers. It is really easy to beat if you just scout it.
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Maybe, but why even great players like HeroMarine die to that attack.
I do not know for sure but I suspect they play too gready or go for bio instead of mech. 1-1-1 with a fast tank into bc (and change to banshee against roach/ravager) is very flexible build that beats most Zerg early attacks and can put on pressure as well.
No idea what to do if you use bio since I have not used bio in any matchup since WOL.
I play 75% of games of Bio, Mech games are so long and slow, and almost all games look them same.
Bio you always have room to improve, you can go bio tank, bio widow mines, bio liberators etc. It is a lot more options, and more fun I feel like.
or innovation vs noregret… saying its easy to beat would be a lie.
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Exactly, if Zerg has skill and executes the 2 base all in correctly, even in the highest level of play, it is really strong. Nowadays, especially terran is looking to have a problem dealing with it.
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IMO Zerg all ins are the easiest to hold and Protoss are the hardest.
Zerg all-ins are so bad, that as no one expect them, so when you do them, they have no idea how to defend.
I being zerged all in like at least 40% of the games. Bane ling, or roach ravegers, or like only 3 raveger 2 roach really early.
No attack is all in versus a gold player.
We just talked already that it is used in tournaments, and pro players like Heromarine, and Innovation have been destroyed by 2 base all in zergs.
Bly almost 80% games he plays like that. I don’t think he would play like that, if if it is that easy to defend.
Whats the point in doing a two base all in when you can go three base and doing an all in while your enemy thinks you are gonna fill that third?. Any player will see no third and they will rush defense and checking for all ins.
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Good question, whats the point?, but they still do it and they still win, maybe just 60-65%. You could say they don’t learn anything.
When I play T and P cheeses me, I can understand they want an Edge, even if I defend.
Zerg already has a macro edge. When I play Zerg I want to out macro/make fast tech change/flank them etc.
Why I would I play gimmicky with the zerg race, which has so solid mid and especially late game, it just so weird.
first of all, please stop saying random % numbers.
Well, I’m not doing a 2-ball in T- against T.
Roach → Tank | Banshee
ling → atm hellion are very popular and counter ling.
vs. t. early 3-Roach early push and hard drone.
vs. Toss it works out quite well from time to time.
the biggest problem with zerg is anti air. with early push. have none or queens that are very slow. you need so many units that you do enough damage, because you constantly lose units by 1-3 air units.
it allows you to increase the pressure out. if you play the meta ecco zerg atm on low tec. you will be constantly attacked for the first 7min and have to react to everything.
But if you play it aggressively you can force others to play defensively. +map vision.
but this “ecco edge” only comes at ~5-6 min and sometimes only lasts 1-2 min, depending on how well you defend until you can benefit.
Before that T/P have the “tec edge”.
Mid game currently all have a solid comp.
1 2 min can win you the game.