12 worker start broken

  • rax would started at 11 supply, now at 15, protoss gets more probes and faster natural against ratio when 1st, 2nd, 3rd mule would hit
  • in HOTS: protoss had to pause probe production at 9/10
  • IN HOTS: nexus provided 10 supplies, while cc 11
  • ALSO PROTOSS COULDN’T EXPAND BEFORE CYBER, OR AFTER CYBER AND HALTING TERRANS NATURAL, WHICH IS INCREDIBLY BROKEN!
  • less minerals per patches favors protoss and zerg, because Terran expands slowest, and you will break your mineral line:
    • if you mule same patch OR if you forget to send it back, no one can do that perfectly later on…
  • also it favors zerg, because there is greater defenders advantage and if you send runbys, or banes to kill pf, terran will be stuck on bases, which minerals dried out, which wasn’t case in HOTS. IT ALSO WORKS, because in LOTV maps have 50 attack paths and are so open, in HOTs there were even 3 small 2-player maps in one season with only 3 attack paths and easily wallable third. Now you can’t even wall of third…

Also blizzard forget, that each race would have different amount of minerals at bank at 12 workers and workers would be stacked already. Also because rax started at 11 supply, now mule hits later in comparison to zerg/protoss having more bases, mineral lines, workers, chronoes etc.

BUT BLIZZARD HAVE IQ OF INSECT, THEY DON’T EVEN. ECONOMY IS COMPLETELY BROKEN FROM THE BASE…

4 Likes

You are wooden league, so shut up, you don’t even play the game…

4 Likes

Many people complained on 12 worker start when game got released. This was literally one of worst changes in history of sc2!..

12 worker start was a great change for the game. Every player has already adapted to it, except you!

8 Likes

Says player , which is stuck in gold league. AGAIN YOU ARE COMPLETELY CLUELESS>… STOP POSTING PLEASE… I literally listed proof why it is broken and you just whine…

1 Like

I don’t know what’s your source, but this is wrong. In HotS the protoss could expand faster than right now, specially in PvP and PvT, due to the nexus/pylons overcharge being an effective deterrent to early game attacks.

Gate expand was the go-to opener in PvT/PvP, with zealot-mothership pokes possibly being game if successfully transformed in pylon rushes. Now the protoss can still time a poke to kill the CC building SCV with their very first zealot, and add a quick stalker to that ; but the zealot stalker poke was out since WoL, so there’s nothing new out there.

If anything the deletion of the MSC forced protoss to 2 gates expand more often in PvP, and to cyber expand more in PvT (I say more, but that build was nearly non existent before MSC’s removal).

So yeah, the protoss can use his CB to poke at your natural quicker than you could with a matching build ; but that’s nothing new under the sun.

What favors Z is the requirement to expand faster than in HotS, since they are the most mobile of the 3 races. But they also took a big hit to their larvae mechanics, which somehow compensates. Both having nothing to do with the 12 workers start.

Take a look at this :
https://youtu.be/SAo3QwnPruc

Tell me what he does in the first 39s.
Well, aside than getting a few SCVs and spamming like a crazy, the answer is nothing. Those 40s are dead time to a player, and boring as hell to a viewer.
Compare it to now, where we rally the first worker to build the depot/pylon in the very first second.
All what the 12 workers start did was get rid of that dead time.

And, looking back at those game, I think that’s the best decision DK ever took for the game. :slightly_smiling_face:

4 Likes

Wait what? Are you trolling me right now? You didn’t play HOTS right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1ncpObTUw

You can watch literally any pro game TvP from HOTS. And as you can see:

  • Terrans natural was at the same time as Protoss natural, or little bit quicker - depends on build
  • Or, if Protoss went MSC: Terrans natural would be almost completed, before Protoss natural even started , but he could kill possibly marines and workers and force repair, so that balanced economy in the matchup.
  • Terrans third was usually tiny bit quicker and 4th always little bit quicker!
  • if protoss chosen to get double upgrades and 8 gates, he would be stuck on 2 bases, now he gets all of that with quick third and yet pressuring you with blink!

Wait what? Zerg can literally queue injects and than group 6 queens and don’t have to inject, or later if you forget, than you don’t have to remember again and it will inject 2 times automatically and in late game, you can queue injects like for 5 minutes ahead. How is that big hit. Inject is better if anything. You can still use macro trick, because in early game, you will inject at the same time and than when game starts to pick up the pace, you will use inject macro trick…
It doesn’t even make sense what you are saying…

It got rid of death time, but broken the base of the game. You realize, that rax would start at 11 supply in hots, so zerg and protoss would have less workers by the time 1st mule hits and than when 2nd and 3rd and so on. Because now you have 15 workers and it just started, not sure how many have protoss and zerg at that time… I was talking about all of this in the first post. So you didn’t even read single word…

You can create custom game and test it out literally, i already posted 2 videos about it once. And in HOTS terran gets mule before even natural nexus started, while in LOTV it is like shortly afterwards, if i remember correctly and also protoss gets:

  • more workers
  • sooner 2nd mineral line
  • sooner 2nd chrono boost
  • sooner more worker production

In ratio to when would 1st, 2nd, 3rd mule hit!!! So yes 12 worker start is broken…

12 worker start is the best thing that ever happened to SC2. Having to sit through 5 minutes of building workers and very little else every game was horrifically boring and adds nothing. Thank you Blizzard for the great change

6 Likes

Hmm. I start with exactly 12 workers, so it seems to be working fine.
What problem are you encountering?

2 Likes

Well, that was a long time ago and I played since late HoTS, so it’s possible I’ve forgotten how the protoss did open at that time. It seems cyber FE was favored in PvT. That’s not too different from now in fact. :thinking:

As for trolling, first you’re replying from an alt account (which I am not supposed to know), and second, don’t you think linking Flash as an example is somewhat dishonest ? He is known to open ultra-greedily with CC first (and has been abused due to this) instead of the standard reaper FE. So I might have forgotten the protoss builds from that time, but you’re also twisting things there.

Well, ask Batz. He’s an extremely poor source regarding anything terran, but if you cut everything he says to just the Z part, he was quite annoyed by the fact the injects efficiency was decreased from 4 larvae per inject to 3. That means while the terrans and protoss economy were reduced by 12.5%, the zerg had their economy AND production reduced by that factor ; which is particularly significant in early game (where pro players nearly never missed any injects), and in one base plays. :mag:

The increased need for expansions and the massive amount of buffs Z received with early LotV did more than compensate though.

I won’t. I have often thought to myself upon watching old games that the 12 workers start really did a nice job at getting rid of that useless deadtime, and that that was both pleasant in terms of show for the viewers, and gameplay for the players. So I have no interest in investigating something the devs won’t even consider.
If there is an economic imbalance, it will have to be fixed with the 12 workers start.

blizzard do not listen to the noobs 6 worker start was way to low it could probably go higher than 12 but that would take to much balance work

1 Like

this is grossly inferior and a waste of energy.

1 Like

It’s literally 90 seconds not 5 minutes.

I seem to remember Forge Fast Expand being a thing for alot of HOTS

Honestly what are you suggesting though? Go back to 6 workers just because you think it affected terran more?? Going to 12 workers was the best thing blizzard ever did for the game, not surprising that some terran :cactus: would want to change it because…you can’t click different mineral patches to mule

1 Like