"yOuRE aT FAult foR YOur lOSses" - Bad Teammates

Competitive Discussion
1

I see this broken argument every time anyone tries to explain their bad team mates (WHICH IS DEFINITELY A THING)

Hi I’m LiquidMind and I’m trying to get better at OW2 and play peacefully. I try my best, I read up on advice and team comps etc and try not to flame my team. Yet it always feels like I end up with people who just are up the creek with no canoe. Whenever I try to look up a potential solution it’s always this same argument that comes up with some pretty obvious flaws yet people still seem to preach it on every message board I read.

Okay so. It’s like the argument is as follows:

“If you lose a match it’s not your teammates it’s you.”

So this has an inherent flaw already right off the bat. Say you claim the loss was my fault, okay fair enough…but…what are you also saying to my team mates?

Answer: The exact same thing.

Which means IT IS indeed their fault.

This whole logic of “oh dont blame your team, find out what you did wrong” applies to everyone on the team who lost. Not just me. So actually if that’s the case, I can still put responsibility of a loss on my team due to this logic.

All in all I’m just trying to get better and the team mates I get put with seldom play their roles, do well at all. Even with comms it’s a assorted bag of people who either somewhat listen, dont listen at all or just talk trash like 14 year olds on COD.

  • There seems to be no sign of intelligent life anywhere - Buzz Lightyear

So what can I do? The only time good comms and callouts work is with actual good players (albeit rare finds) but there doesnt ever seem to be a way to mitigate the atrocious bad play some teammates do and find a way to win.

I therefore conclude that some games are just losses. No matter what. Like no argument to prove otherwise really.

So OW or any comp game for that matter is a matter of luck, hope and not throwing your controller at the wall when someone does something that even Mr Bean would think twice on.

Little tirade over :')

If anyone wants to positively comment and discuss any ways you try to get over bad team mates or find ways to win that’d be really great. I’m open to critique of what I’ve written. All I want to do is improve and find that belief that any game is winnable.

I want to keep this civil guys. No flaming or arguments please. Thanks for reading.

22 Likes
2

basically blizz is saying your rank is on you. Yes we can all admit the other members of your team are of course a factor, and technically they are 80% of the reason why you either won or you lost. we all know this.

But!

The only CONSTANT factor in ALL of your games is you!

EDIT to rephrase: no one can give advice to your team mates or correct their behavior no matter how much advice we give you.

8 Likes
3

Firstly thanks for the reply.

I’d just like to go over a few things you’ve said:

So you’re saying 80% of my result is outside of our control. Even wins. No matter how much we read up on how to improve.

This confirms confirms that we can place responsibility of losses on teammates if they play badly of course.

Okay but my game pad and console are also constant factors in these games, can I pin my losses on those too?

True. Sometimes it feels like talking into the void with your team.

How do you rank up then? Do you have any tips or things you follow or are you just relying on luck of the draw to get to gold/plat/diamond etc?

-LM

4 Likes
4

uuuuuh… I mean look dude I think you’re missing the mark let me give you an example.

Take a game of plinko. That game where you drop a ball and it bounces off a bunch of pegs seemingly totally randomly and the goal is you just gotta get lucky and have the ball land as close to or right in the middle (extra points for landing right in the middle).

Yes technically 95% of whats going on is totally out of your control and is “random”… you can ONLY influence where you drop the ball from at the top…

Try to think of it like that man, even if you only have a small influence over the outcome its still all you have. Crying that its unfair cuz of the way the pegs were set up or the way the wind blows or anything else doesn’t matter. The only thing you can do is try to drop that ball ever so much better than you did last time… even if you odds of winning only go up 0.001% more.

In OW sure 9 people are RANDOM and not always even evenly skilled but the ONLY factor you can influence is yourself.

Stop complaining about everything else all you can do is focus on yourself.

6 Likes
5

“a single death can change everything” -widowmaker

7 Likes
6

Just keep playing. It’s about the big picture, not singular games. Try not to focus on your teammates, and address them as little as possible. Yes, sometimes a loss is because of a teammate. For example: last night I had a player randomly go afk mid-match, and that surely exacerbated our disadvantage. But what can I do about that? Nothing I can say to that player will change the fact that happened. So there is no point. We move on, we go next.

And yeah your setup can be an issue, though idk much about console. That’s still a factor regarding you, though. Same thing if the case was bad posture or outdated glasses etc.

Keep going and don’t tilt. If you’re tilting or on a losing streak, take a break. Try to avoid playing late nights and weekends.
Luck does not influence true climbing. Climbing takes deliberate dedication, focus, and self-reflection.
Shrug off the things outside of your control.

2 Likes
7

Thanks for the replies

I can understand a grindset if it eventually does lead to gains in a certain field. For example a work place or something. But if I have to rely on playing, playing and playing and just ignoring my bad teammates and hope for W’s then I don’t really see my influence taking any part here?

I’m not wishing for pro’s on my team every game, far from it. All I want is teammates who can understand callouts, know what a teamcomp is and to play intelligently. I dont necessarily want Seagull on DPS or something. Just a player who’s on the ball and is able to adapt.

I’ll say something here I’m sure you’ve heard elsewhere 1000 times. But sometimes I have games where I play out my mind, racking up kills, gold objective medals and still lose games. This is what is frustrating about playing with teams (especially strangers) Like I give it my all but we still lose? What’s even the point then.

I do hear some of your guys thought but I feel some of you might be just too focused on this “focus on yourself only” advice. I mean relying on just eventually ranking up wont work for everyone as not everyone is gonna make it into top 500. Mathematically speaking at the very least.

Thanks for replies though.

Peace

-LM

3 Likes
8

I can’t carry 2 leavers. There are some teams so mismatched that you just can’t carry them.

This is true, but it’s an awful grind. It’s so bad it’s not worth caring about rank.

6 Likes
9

There is instances where if you find yourself losing multiple games it may be on you. But then there’s instances of a guy hard locking dva when their team is sym Zarya and MEI. Or rein just charging in over and over.

10 Likes
10

I think there is a certain standard of minimum skill you expect from your teammates depending on what rank you are. Of course everyone has bad games but some players I see do things I would never do like go 3 consecutive rounds without ever using an ult.

That can be frustrating when the main point of ranking up in the first place is so you won’t get teammates who do such things. But it’s hard to blame anything other than the matchmaking when they throw 5 different ranks together and call it a fair matchup.

The mentality of ignoring every factor other than yourself only applies to people trying to reach the top of the ladder where these same issues still remain albeit to a slightly lesser degree.

Personal improvement cannot fix the matchmaking. Most people just want to play with teammates and opponents of similar skill regardless of what rank they are in. But unfortunately the matchmaking has only slowly gotten worse since the beginning of ow1.

5 Likes
11

It’s random with an influence, which isn’t RANDOM. Within a certain rank, certain localities, with a certain ping with certain score of the match maker with a history of map played before and winning percentage of said map and winning percentage of your own game on said map.

So “random” from queue yes, but at any given random person is then controlled flowed to your lobby and then controlled to which team they are on.

That’s why 1 person any given game is yea “random”. But if you lose 10-14 games… and then let’s say after awhile you then win streak passed those games you lost streak…

This game needs work. But at this point I dunno what’s worse… the people leaving due to ThEiR server issues and game apply update issues, balance …. Or the rigged / inaccurate match maker… but this game has no legs. They get an influx of people for short bursts and the “issues” make it a terrible experience.

Can’t wait for Diablo !!!

2 Likes
12

Finally someone who actually admitted weather they ise freaking coms or not. listening to everyone else about how there teammates are “Always bad” and how there “always losing” but always wanting to take this high and mighty mindset of I dOnT belLiEvE In tEllInG oThErs what to do iM nOT toXIC.
It is the miniscule things that will kill you on this game, are you keeping 3 on cart? Are you rotating ults properly, are you calling where to position, are you telling your team appropriate switches, are you communicating with your team the enimies ults, are you ult tracking properly, taking space.

This is a “primary” shot caller in my games the team rotates around me, not because Im rude or demanding or anything because I am a “Shot caller” I am the one “Calling the shots” Your energy, your thought process, your moments gets transferred to your team.

And next which is probably you, there’s “Average” shot calling ya know your probably tracking ults, your pinging mercys and low hp targets. Just making regular call outs which there is absolutely nothing wrong with that it’s just not as strong as a primary.

Also being a “Primary” shot caller you need to be VERY specific “Ashe hold bob till next fight” don’t just say “we have bob” otherwise she’ll use it. “get dva out of mech before we pop visor” “queen no shout” “ana no nade” everything basically, heck even calling on specific people to go on specific targets.

I am so glad that you mentioned you actually use coms, that already makes you better then like 100%+ of the people who complain over and over and give barely any information besides how hard there carrying and popping off. You are 100% better then any of those players in my eyes.

13

It’s not that it is your fault for losing a match. It’s your fault for not ranking up if you desire to.

14

It’s a mindset. When you think it’s your fault, you’re just looking at the mistakes you’re making and what you could be doing better. It’s a way of thinking and an actual way of life. Self-improvement.

Of course, your team can play bad. The enemy team too. You included. All these things will dictate on how the game will end. But why lose your time and patience literally thinking about strangers on the internet? If you actually stop for 10 seconds and really think about it – isn’t it a little sad you’re dwelling on these small things; “my team is doing this and that”; “bad matchmaking”; “ballance this and that”, when you could just work on getting better? See, this drives me back to the main point – self-improvement: the whole ‘blame yourself’ perspective.

In conclusion, I have to ask you something - I’ve actually asked this to other people who were in the same situation as you are and none of them knew how to awnser - why is it others or I can get to GM pretty easily(not trying to be arrogant here though)but you seem to struggle? Why would a top player stomp your lobbies regardless the teams he/she has?

I hope you take something useful out of this and not that I’m attacking you.

2 Likes
15
3 Likes
16

The skill level of your teammates 100% has a factor on your games outcomes. When I play with a group, I win far more than I do when I play solo. You can do your best to have good positioning, read guides, watch t500 streamers and so on. All that will 100% help you improve, but are most of your teammates as a solo that dedicated to improve? I would say probably not.

Everyone that truly wants to improve and are actually doing things to, I would say find likeminded people to queue with. Because as solo, especially in lower elo, you’re probably not gonna find many random teammates as dedicated as you when it comes to improving and playing well. Lower elo is basically just longer qp with a penalty for leaving.

17

I am GM1… in 2 roles on my comp account and masters across the board on main.

I have been playing rather consistently and I usually have a 55% win rate… This season alone i have a 42% win rate- I have NEVER HAD THIS…, I have been in lobbies multiple times with leavers, (one card i had 5 games where people left in a row.), throwers (had a card with 4 games and def noticed afk throwers), and people who def don’t belong in the lobby (seeing plats and gold IN THE ROLE THEYRE QUEUED on IN M-GM lobbies). … I understand I am supposed to carry my weight and then some- but we cannot carry that. AND WE CANNOT COMPENSATE FOR A TANK/DPS/SUPP DIFF EASILY IF THE OTHER SIDE HAD MATCHING SKILL on the other roles. Your team sadly just needs to play better together if there’s a weaklink. Make the weaklink the STRONG ONE.

Blaming yourself is a good thing, but doing it to the extent i did? That’s unhealthy. I would blame myself for leavers, throwers, and out of league players. I would solely take it on my shoulders to carry the loss- even if i did everything right.

OW is a TEAM GAME. IF YOUR TEAM CANNOT WORK TOGETHER, THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF CARRY YOU CAN REASONABLY DO. I HAVE SEEN OWL Players, Top 500s, and Content Creators ALL FAIL TO CARRY BAD TEAMS and BAD PLAYERS vs people of their skill or higher where the other team … WORKED TOGETHER. I have also seen many on bad win rates this season and it took an enormous amount of games and smurfing to fix it.

It is a TEAM GAME, and guess what? If people don’t work together and help each other AND DO THEIR JOBS RIGHT? YOU LOSE. If you take it on yourself to control what you can do but your teammates don’t care nor do they process what to do? YOU LOSE. THATS NOT YOUR FAULT. I am SO SICK OF THE “IT’S SOLEY YOUR FAULT,” argument and i am equally sick of “everyone is bad except me,” argument. There’s a damn balance here- and it starts with acknowledging it is a heavily biased TEAM GAME. Control what you can, but realize you will lose if you have bad players on your team. NO AMOUNT OF CARRY CAN HELP THAT, ONLY THE LITERAL CREME OF THE CROP CAN ATTEMPT AND EVEN THEN THEY ALSO FAIL MOST OF THE TIME EXCEPT WHEN ON FRESH SMURFS.

5 Likes
18

As a GM player… i hit this point.

19

I agree it gets said far too often, and yes you can lose due to the incompetence of even just one team mate, more so now it’s 5v5.

I think though the advice is to improve your own play, because that’s all you can do. You’ve no control over your team so blaming them really doesn’t achieve anything. As Overwatch has one of the most toxic communities in gaming though, here that advice is often translated to: you’re to blame for every loss.

2 Likes
20

Everyone knows the matchmaking is total garbage. I bet even the lazy incompetent staff at blizzard know this. The streamers know this and about 99% of the casual players know this. The game is a joke, all because Blizzard hired and put in charge a bunch of incompetent do nothing employees.

Whoever is in charge of the report system and matchmaking should be fired immediately.

1 Like