4 heroes out of what 40, and many have issues with orissa and we all saw what happened with cassidy.
Not really good examples.
Maybe if the hog and sombra reworks are near perfect, then maybe. But given pass experiences i doubt their reworks will go smoothly
All tanks got health buffs and many heroes were balanced differently at OW2 release. You’re accusing them of not doing it at all. Which they did do it. Whether they did it well is a different.
Most heroes are the same as in OW1, they really only changed tanks, and a few others. Most wernt touched.
Its taken them a year to fix roadhog and sombra, at that rate its gonna takes forever.
5v5 was to rushed and not enough testing
That’s exactly what I’ve always thought. The only reason people defend 5v5 was cause it was legit thrown at us. People just rolled over and accepted it rolling with the punches. Sure we’re not game developers running the game, but that’s exactly why the 6v6 supporters are so vocal.
Or because it’s better then 6v6
If 5v5 was objectivley better then 6v6, then these discussions would not be happening.
But no, eversince the announcement of 5v5 people were hesitent, we gave it a try let the game play for a year to see if it could work, but the issues on Day 1 are still here on Day 365.
5v5 is not perfect
6v6 is not perfect
5v5 could work
6v6 could work
Its just somethink that 5v5 works better and some think that 6v6 works better. One isnt objectively better then the other since both have issues
Why do people think speaking “objectively” is the only way I can speak. Subjectively it’s better. I’m not gonna say “subjectively” every single time I’m being “subjective”
Tbh I don’t think the average player thinks about the fundamentals of OW in detail. They just play the game just to play. Legit no one wanted 5v5.
There were some, but its not like 50% of players wanted it.
It was more like a what if OW was 5v5.
people didnt ask for it but considered it.
Wow! this has to be my favorite comment why 5v5 was implemented in the in the first place. 
When you are developing a sequel which is too ambitious to be made the best idea is to use the same formula like all the other games whilst ditching your current game which can be easily fixed so that you can package something to justify the sequel.
Hi. This was from 3 years ago. Single Tank, with Role Passives.
✅ Next Experiment: 1-2-2 SoloTank
Then I did a comprehensive 5v5 rebalance patch post, a few weeks before the OW2 PVP beta was announced:
How could double shield not be balanced? They literally have all the reworks for it in OW2.
I don’t think this bit is actually true though. The default is to resist change. Whenever a company changes a product, it does so with the knowledge that there will be pushback (often very vocal very virulent pushback). That is the default. Companies still change products though. There are any number of reasons why a company might change a product even in the face of very vocal detractors.
And in the case of videogames, in particular, the default appears to be that a significant portion of the playerbase for any given game doesn’t want any major changes- regardless of whether those changes are positive or not.
In the case of the 6v6 vs 5v5 discussion the most salient point that I believe is overlooked in these discussions is that the devs had attempted to solve various issues in numerous ways before resorting to the 1-2-2 format.
If it were easy to solve those issues without resorting to 1-2-2, they would have done so. So while I have some sympathy for the idea that going back to 6v6 while addressing the issues of it’s format would be difficult but some would prefer that we do it anyway, I think those who say that 6v6 would easily improve the game and that it would be easy to address any issues of the 6v6 format, but that the devs simply refuse to do so are pretty clearly misguided. (Which clearly is not what you, Alex, are saying, but it comes up so often in these discussions, it’s hard not to address it.)
and despite anything the players now claim it to be the best change ever made to OW, because devs said it
overoptimistic
wrong, OW was pretty balanced quite early
it was things like the old Hog hook that needed fixing, then the game was mostly fine
I feel the same. I loved OW2 at first and even called it a new golden age of OW gameplay, but the balance has gotten progressively worse with every passing month.
None of that is specific to 5v5. This team just isn’t adept at balancing a PvP shooter. Changing the number of players on the battlefield is never going to make the dev somehow capable of something that isn’t in their skill set.
10/10 would recommend this post people enjoy getting murdered while one tank struggles trying to stay alive with an ana on the enemy team like it’s not nostalgia glasses the devs are just dumb since ow came out it’s was made for a 6v6 that’s why characters are the way they are now if anything they need to nerf some damage since that’s what the other tank did take some of that damage stress off people like if they just added the tank back we wouldn’t need to nerf so many people “double shield meta tho” orisa isn’t a shield tank anymore and can say f you to literally 95% to the roster so you can’t blame that plus you just switch you switch to people who melt shields it wasn’t that hard you guys just suck just say that
My favorite posts are the ones advocating for 5v5 and believing(with copium only) that Micro$oft is going to do anything with OW. 
The joke writes itself.
it’s how it’s mostly played in RQ comp
And it’s funny how people who dont show evidence on how 5v5 is better other than “nostalgia glass” and people who blindly support the devs when it doesn’t Benefit them I find those hilarious as you said they write themselves
We can hypothesize about it as well, but I am not speaking about speculations. I am saying that 5v5 advocates would not be as big as 6v6 advocates now. Not even close.
But there’s no announcement that 6v6 will come back, but it’s a huge movement even after a year.
Yeah, that’s why I am comparing in the same vacuum. 5v5 was not announced and being supported is not nearly as famous as 6v6 being also not announced. 6v6 is also not announced. heck, it’s even worse because it’s a canceled thing now. but the support is massive. do you see the point?
Not as near as 6v6 now. There was not daily posts on forums and weekly videos discussing it, heated debates or anything. Not even close.
True, but it would never grow into sizes of current 6v6 supporters.
Not a very good comparison. 6v6 is a canceled thing. Nobody canceled Bible. Bible is like 6v6 now, in fact.
But 5v5 ults are still powerful too. What you say is characteristic to both. Nanoed genji is a team wipe now. And primary fire being impactful, it was possible to fix it. Primary fire was impactful during 6v6 for so many years, so it was obviously not a format issue. They just had poor balancing and convinced everyone that it’s 6v6’s fault.
This. I seriously enjoyed 5v5 at start. Then they bring back cc, bring back every problem of 6v6, and I wonder what was the point then.
How About Ana or Zen. Or you saying cass and bastion, they became even worse now. Bastion was glued to a place against 2 tanks. Now he is a movable tank busting machine. They reworked them, but made worse for 5v5.
Sure, but overall shared tank health pool was around 800-1200 in OW1. Now there are tanks with 450 HP. And all 5 sources of damaged directed on you. It’s like you want to protect yourself from a nuclear drop by wearing a helmet. Tanks get melted in a second.
And somehow devs convinced everyone that 6v6 was the reason, not poor balancing.
Because that determines the game health. If the game continues to decline like it does now, you, subjectively, will not have this game to play anymore. It was abandoned once before, it will happen again, and is kinda already happening.
If you read the comments you will see how people bust all these posts with facts. That’s exactly my point. You could say you want 5v5, but the community would destroy that opinion. Just like they do in the posts of the threads that you posted here.
And how come we had 6v6 before without shield shooting? Obviously it was a hero design issue then, not a format issue.
you are right, but holy s…t, commas and periods