I’ve played Overwatch long enough to know when I’m the weak link, but I appreciate your concern. 
The biggest flaw, as I see it, is that I can’t imagine the development team have updated the matchmaker after implementing Role Queue.
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Which makes a lot of sense. Think about it. The higher your SR gets above your actual skill level the lower your chances of winning become and the higher your chances of losing become. It should be no surprise that after a winning streak a losing streak follows.
Then there are external factors such as loss of motivation as you realize that you are on a losing streak. This loss of motivation can be huge if you believe the system is rigged against you and will end in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then your SR is way below your actual skill level and you get on a winning streak simply due to chances, this winning streak then might motivate you or otherwise makes you more engaged with the game leading to more wins. And the cycle continues.
The motivation-thing is just one easy example I came up with quickly. There are a lot of these factors at play, many of which hard to figure out. Easy ones are state-of-mind, how awake you are, stress, etc.
It might feel like it, but feelings should not determine your opinions. That’s the job of reason 
So you prefer to blame the match maker over taking accountability?
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Honestly I prefer a source that has been “on some level” endorsed by a Blizzard rep/mod.
Until Blizzard comes forward and tells us whats going on, literally all of it is speculation.
The reality is, people’s ego’s are too fragile and they need to find a scapegoat as to why they’re unable to be successful in a video game where they’re playing against other human beings who are more skilled, more intelligent and sometimes, just luckier.
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That’s a silly question. I know when I perform badly, and I don’t put those games in the same category as games where I have underperforming teammates. One can acknowledge both! 
Fair… I’ll give you that…
In this scenario, generally you would benefit from swapping to another hero. In those cases, you put out more value, and you lose less SR if you consistently put out more value than your teammates…
More value and less SR lost, translates to higher SR gains long term.
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Fortunately I only play Quick Play these days so I don’t have to worry about SR! 
I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to tell me how to play a game I’ve owned and played very regularly for 4 years - Sadly my internet is subpar at best which anyone whose read at least 10 of my Forum posts would know, and as a result I work with what I have. Unless I’d rather do zero damage or let my teammates die against my will, I play Mercy and have done so for about a year now.
Not that my experience changed back when I was a flex player, however. But playing Mercy, the only considerable thing I’ve noticed is that I switch between getting teammates hit all their shots to teammates who hit none like clockwork and I observe it in real time.
I don’t see why it is such a stretch to imagine that players who aren’t performing so well get put with better players in the hopes that said better players will carry them. Unfortunately I highly doubt the matchmater has been updated much, if at all, since Role Queue.
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Because it’s a serious matter that has played one of the biggest parts in the game and has been one of the most thriving reasons for the decline of the game as the handicapped matchmaking has proven to make players’ gameplay experience very bad in the long run as handicapped matches are almost never enjoyable for anyone, which also induces hostility between the players and causes other varying issues regarding not just the enjoyability of the game, but the integrity of the competitive gamemode as a whole
Also
I don’t think it was him, but it has been officially confirmed that 40% is the lowest the system can estimate or else the game won’t be physically able to initiate. However handicapping being a massive problem isn’t really about the 40% chance either. It’s more deeply rooted in the gameplay itself where the team with more highly varying players is much more likely to lose the match against an evened out team with better averages. Only in very rare occasions does the highly varying underdog team get an absolute unit of a DPS paired with an adequate but considerably worse support that enables the team to benefit from that one players’ carry status. However like I said those occasions are very rare and the chances of it happening drastically diminish the better the players are in the game
And that is why you play in group.
Matchmaking simply unable to calculate odds of victory accurately in that case. It would be great, if Blizzard explained to us, what kind of model they used to calculate winning odds. Though I imagine, that it could ruin the game, as players would run their own calculations and leave game, if they don’t like odds they got.
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I see this happening already and whenever I’m playing solo I’m doing this as well, because if I don’t leave a match I clearly see is skewed up against me and I’m the one getting heavily handicapped in the match, I end up tilting out of the planet when we inevitably lose the match. Playing with considerably worse teammates against a solid team is just that horrible of an experience. Last time this happened was last night when I thought to myself “oh s— my teammates are so much more worse than the opponents, but maybe these 2 lvl 50 accounts will even things out” and we never got even close to capping the first point of that Anubis push. I traded 2-3 picks for my life many times that match, but my teammates varied between 2800-3200SR while opponents had +4 stack and +3800SR players (surprisingly over half the players had open profiles), so they never even managed to remotely approach the point regardless. Watching that happen again and again while players were typing garbage in the chat to each other was such a tilting experience that I’ve vouched to not give clearly skewed matches another chance for a while Unless I’m stacking like I 99% of the time nowadays am considering how terrible the solo experience is as a high MMR player
Also yeah it doesn’t calculate odds of victory accurately, as already stated in the starting post quite clearly on multiple occasions. Just the fact that it can achieve an estimated chance of a victory by handicapping (mixing much higher and lower MMR’d players against much more even ones) tells us that when in OW the team with more highly varying players tends to lose every match the higher you climb, at approximately 50% chances to win. Obviously you can still have the upperhand with a handicapped team if your estimated chances are near the 60% upper threshold, but even then it’s a massive liability for your team. This is the problem with the system
Welcome to any solo queue experience in any game ever.
Uh , you know that you are putting TOO MUCH trust on your ability to tell at a gaze the level of skill of ELEVEN players in the match right?
Like I get perception sometimes is accurate, but believing you are more accurate than a system that has access to way more stats than you its closer to dunning kruger effect mate. Just a tip. Dont trust anything too much, including your “senses”.
Also its not rare knowing that most private profile users have something to hide, or are ashamed of being average-low rank … that doesnt happen on High plat and above. At least not as much.
No system can predict the future mate, it does what it can with the given information.
If a dude that plays 4 heroes at Master level decides to “feed” with Ball , which he/she plays at 2300SR level, the system cant predict it … you know that, right?
Since RQ was installed, people have been losing versatility to INSANELY low degrees, so you will get this phenomenon way more often. If you add that to people having a bad day or coming from a loss streak/tilting games etc, you get the “chaos” factor.
Lets keep our expectations realistic shall we? No MM system in ANY game is able to predict chaos factors, so in OW, when you introduce “forced lack of versatility” (RQ) and multiple different tools that you are NOT forced to learn and use at your skill level, you will always get uneven matches.
PS: If you want to “control” your team mates, LFG or 6 stack mate. Option is there, takes more time, but its a trade off. Your call.
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Oh there’s quite a lot of this on these forums. I’m starting to really feel the depths at which people are genuinely incapable of self reflection.
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Just play the game
Reaper flanking always from the same spot and does nothing else, no one on your team recognizes it and feeds to reaper the whole game and looses
The community can be rough some times
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Bruh…. It’s like that sometimes 
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It physically hurts to see your team loosing to such things
Holy crap, every competitive sport ever is also “rigged” in this exact same way!! 
Get the president on the phone!
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Eh that’s kinda true, but other games are built around soloplayer multiplayer experience or have mechanics where you can perform as an individual in a rewarding way, but the team-based competitiveness aspect of OW kinda denies that
You’re just over-estimating how hard it is to predict the outcome of the match, when it’s rather black and white in certain cases like that match that I described. I gave the match benefit of the double only because only 3 players had hidden profiles and so I decided to give the game a try because evaluating 2 lvl 50’s is next to impossible considering they could be anything between a completely new player and a 4600SR god
Aside from those players it’s not really that hard to estimate the strengths and weaknesses of both teams and their players especially when I had already played against and with those stacking opponents which meant that not only could I estimate their performance and level of gameplay, I had first-hand experience for it, and I’m the kind of a player who remembers how a certain player did 6 months ago in 2 matches that I played with. I’m kinda known for this sort of brain work in the circles that I play in and my gameplay overall heavily relies on my game sense and “5headedness”
I have my profile hidden whenever I play solo so I can’t really relate. I have a beautiful rainbow of flexing heroes and all my top heroes have good performance stats so there isn’t anything shameful to hide there. I just do it because I don’t want 3rd party programs to track my solo performance because it’d tank the numbers due to games like these. Also if I have to be the carry for the team, giving the opponents info about me is a big disadvantage if they decide to focus me. So I only keep it open whenever I stack up
Lissen up. Nobody said that it should do this. Just that the handicapping aspect of it is extremely inaccurate and harmful for the gameplay experience and has been actively ruining players’ experiences since the release and has been called out by the community ever since. We aren’t asking for systematic changes and more accurate software engineering. We’re just asking for them to limit the variance between players’ MMRs more strictly, because it’s a pre-requisite for the game to be enjoyable. Nothing more.
But they gained enforced comps which was the best decision they have ever made. It alleviated the chaos of getting random team comps with mostly DPS heavy comps to a drastic degree, which saved the game from death basically
I already do this, but it’s not an option that’s available most of the time. Even during peak hours the LFG tool barely has any groups and even if there are some, not many are formed with +3500SR players, so if I hop from +4k average 4-6 stack games down to play with about 3000SR teammates, we’ll most likely get destroyed for a solid hour or two before the MMR would settle appropriately around the team. Problem with that is of course that randoms tend to leave stacks even after a single loss, not to mention 5-6 losses if the system highly values the stack due to certain players in it. QP doesn’t really have that many high tiered big stacks so the chances that you play against the same 1-4 stacks all night is really high. That’s why we sometimes take a tour and go crush some players in QPC for a match or two because we wanna separate from scrimming against the same team over and over again
In the end choosing between having to go through these multilayered and complex answers, that require relatively intense manual labor and work to an issue, and simply fixing the system by opting out of the handicapping function that doesn’t work in OW at all; is rather absurd. Surely they achieve a bit lower queue times by allowing drastically varying players to play against and with each other, but that barely matters when a lot of players just leave these matches anyways and majority of the playerbase has already quit the game and simply don’t play the game at all, proportionally because of this heinous system
This is not really a complicated/confusing matter (IMHO) so writing walls of text feels rather uncomfortable here
I mean … not really.
In all competitive FPS games you cant “climb” with a 50% or negative winrate. If you could, that would be reeeeeallly weird and it would only last for a bit.
Yeah you are not getting it.
Once you are in the match, and play for a bit, you can see what is happening sure, but it is literally impossible to know this BEFORE the match starts. Do you get that, right?
Thats what you seem to be asking of the MM, which is like I said, unrealistic by any standard.
Again, if you read about the Dunning Kruger effect, this is part of it.
I have been playing competitive FPS games for over 20 years and I can tell you that out of 10 dudes that claim to have that “gamesense”, maybe 2 or 3, if they are lucky, actually have it.
Its really easy when you get in Discord, put a random Replay, target a random dude and ask them to explain what is happening or what is NOT happening and why it should or shouldnt.
Again, dont trust anything too much, including your senses. I dont trust mine that hard, specially not to say MM did this wrong or that. That is reaching. Like HARDCORE.
It really sounds like you are mate.
Also people have been complaining about MM systems on Competitive FPS since the 80s, nothing new under the sun. It proves nothing
IDK who that “we” is, but I can guarantee you, that “we” doesnt know what its asking.
if you do that (which would be great) the queue times would increase EXPONENTIALLY. To insane levels. And let me remember that current and previous 2 years queue times, have already made a HUGE amount of players leave the game.
It really didnt. Most of those things can be achieved with LFG.
It also DESTROYED the way Flex players play the game and it made A LOT of players quit.
Sure, but then again, its a trade off.
You trade “fast” matches solo queueing for fairness or more “stacked” appropiately via SR when you go in with a 3-6 stack.
Balanced.
As all things should be.
Read this again and realise how you are contradicting yourself.
If you really think people prioritize sort of “fair” matches over stupidly long queues, you have to rethink again.
Even so, even if they did it, and tanks had 2min queues, DPS 26 and supports around 19 plus, people would still complain about the MM and how they “feel” matches are rigged. However the long queue times, straight up make people quit (unlike MM complains).
Thats just how it is 
Thanks Captain Obvious, but I was referring to the gameplay design and experience itself
I am getting it. I’m just saying that you’re wrong. Do you get that, right?
Kind of a personal attack, but ok.
The rest is kinda wrong, irrelevant or just something I couldn’t really bother reply to considering it clearly wouldn’t be fruitful one way or the other. Nothing concrete or actual arguments really. Just rather odd personal takes on everything
/topic/
But I wasnt, therefore answering about Z when I we are talking about X (how the SR rewards are and how the MM creates matches) makes no sense, but live your dream.
I get that, but again, I am speaking about X and you are responding about Z, therefore you are wrong. Plain simple. I am not wrong about Z because I never spoke about it.
You are clearly not getting that, no need to answer.
If you read the entire paragraph and that is what you get, thats on you pal.
Claiming that your own ability to assess the enemy AND the team capabilities is enough to challenge for certain how the MM works is quite a statement. And yes, that is basically what you are saying 
Translation: You cant come up with something of substance and therefore you are going to exit with a wordy “bla bla you are wrong, I dont care”.
Ok, have a good one mate.
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