I don’t have years of experience, but from the little experience I have flexing, the reason I don’t want to play support much is because of 1-shots. They make being a support in some games almost pointless. That, or you just sit behind the tank and pump it with heals and that is just boring (although seems to be the gameplay style of almost every game, and those games are boring).
Flanking is not terrible in OW as it is now. Certain heroes matchups are pretty unfair like tracer against some of the supports and genji can be pretty OP sometimes in teh right hands, but generally doesn’t seem too bad.
I predict that 1-shots are going to be the downfall of this game if nothing is done about them. I get backfilled into a lot of games and it has become very obvious that for most of them the other team has either a widow or a pharmercy. Players just don’t want to engage with those heroes - they change how the game has to be played and when you’re quite new to it the games are not just unfun, they are very frustrating and bring on toxicity.
Some heroes just are not good for the game, and 1-shots is the biggest reason (except in pharmercy’s case as they can’t 1-shot - they are just a toxic duo).
this is not a flanker issue. you said it yourself: “on the ladder, nobody helps you as a support…” That screams a team issue more than anything. If people are playing selfishly and not as a team while letting their team getting killed by flankers, thats a team issue. We shouldn’t be balancing around sheer incompetence in this regard.
you mention zarya bubbling genji, which requires 2 people. how is that a flanker issue in that sense? this isnt a flanker issue exclusively when zarya herself can bubble any targets which makes it “unable to duel” with any hero. that’s more of a zarya issue. now with sombra and sojourn i can understand as there was far less counterplay between the two. sombra being overnerfed, and genji being nerfed in the wrong spots again were not the play.
oh and btw, im aware genji was meta in the early days of OW, but guess what made him drop off a bit with a certain new support coming along in the meta?
its… its called “dive meta.” not “flanker meta…” at least with dive that it doesnt work without coordination and strategy, so the good news for folks (especially in lower ranks where communication is lacking) is that you cant just run dive and expect it to work effectively. the only support that suffers from this dive meta greatly is zen.
I really REALLY hope youre not justifying nerfs due to situations being 1v2 or 1v3 where you expect that one person fighting 2 or 3 divers to win against them.
I mean technically yes, people didn’t blatantly ask for it but it was pretty obvious once the characters that were keeping long range hitscan in check are not viable enough to do so we get a sniper meta this is the second time it’s happened and it’s always because people complain about flankers when flanking play style only works if your unaware and lack object premonition. The momment you start paying attention to the flankers their value begins to diminish.
If it’s what happens, we need to balance around it, else you wind up with supports feeling miserable.
Yes, it’s called dive, because there has never been a meta where it has just been a flanker doing everything on their own.
And again, to my previous point -
It doesn’t matter if the dive isn’t as effective or if you can still win on other picks. The issue is how you’re thrown to the wolves in these metas as a support.
In pro play, you can position well and your Lucio will peel for you and your team will turn around to help you. On the ladder you just die. You can still win the game and have for example good nanos, but that doesn’t make the experience any more enjoyable.
I’m not. I am saying that something needs to change though so dive isn’t as miserable on the ladder, especially now that an offtank and cc is gone.
Like more mobile supports with compensation nerfs to their healing. Basically a page out of Paladin’s book.
Nerfs just delay the problem since you can’t leave a hero in the gutter. They’ll need to be buffed and the problem will come back.
i actually made a thread all the way back in october when i found out about the genji nerfs incoming and predicted that widow would be hard meta XD, nobody even CONSIDERED the cancer that was heading toward us.
Like 90% of supports rn have an escape or straight up can become invulnerable or kill flankers tracer takes two shots from ana or a full burst from bap ana can bio genji with zero counterplay from the genji by looking at her feet and pressing E. Also if you’re getting 1v2 by both flankers where are you standing for that to happen where’s your other support or dps? Y’all love to bring in these weird and niche happenstance like you’re the only person on your team vs 2 people. The only way you’re getting jumped by 2 flankers is if you are literally by yourself which in that case is bad positioning. Also dive isn’t a meta about flankers it’s a meta revolved mobility. and the meta in season 1 wasn’t dive it was a rush comp kirko lucio sojourn genji/reaper and zarya lol? Like what dive meta where we in?
Diving the enemy Ana. Trading us. It’s a net neutral play at worst, but it still feels awful.
It’s not niche, it’s core to dive.
And while it doesn’t just happen to supports, it happens to supports more often due to the nature of the role.
I never said season one was one.
But hey, if you want to pretend I did for those sick roasts go for it
I pretty explicitly stated that it was Zarya and Genji with a Sojourn or Sombra. But again, this still isn’t something you can “outduel” as a support. And if your team goes to make the same play, you can’t “position well to avoid it.” You just trade.
yall ended up balancing around it so hard that everyone feels miserable, well done support “mains”.
go brig, you can literally 2 v 1 tracer and genji as brig if your team is THAT bad, and if it is THAT bad then ur prolly in metal lobbies therefore a single brig would be enough to 2v1.
if you are being dived enough to be farmed as support you are doing something wrong… you should never have above double digits deaths as support.
ana has the only hard cc in the game as a cooldown in the game and 360 effective HP, brig can peel and 1v1 dive with ease, kiriko can escape, bap can literally 1v3 and walk away with a kill with his amount of utility, moira is just garbage but she can fade out, lucio is just unkillable unless you have a mental illness and chase after poor lucios even if you feed.
Who’s roasting who? Bringing emotions to logic. Literally nothing you mentioned is a fundamental issue with flankers, the people who suffer the most aren’t supports, the game is constantly balanced around supports and it ALWAYS feels worse for it. And I’m sorry you said “flanker” meta we never had a flanker meta either. We had a sombra sojourn issue and one of those heros is a flanker with zero counterplay other was a one shot hybrid hitscan with zero counterplay? So where’s this flanker meta? all I see on these forums is the same complaints from supports about literally anything that can kill them. When supports have to be killable for the game to function the only flanker that in actuality a 100% issue was sombra and it was for EVERYONE not just supports being hacked and killed isn’t fun at all for anyone.
“Hey guys,we’re scared that 5v5 will encourage more oneshot heroes so lets nerf genji and tracer,super buff orisa to where she shreds winton to pieces,buff widow AND THEN add a mobile oneshot hero”
But hey atleast new support players can feel better about themselves ￣へ￣
No, just no. Balancing around incompetence is the STUPIDEST thing I’ve ever heard. It’s also part of why Brig exists. Dive was strong for quite awhile, eventually team incompetence lead up to a SUPPORT being created strictly to deal with Dive. Supports should help define a meta, not completely shut one down. The last thing this game needs is heroes, mainly support ones, getting gigabuffed or created JUST to deal with certain scenarios. This is a TEAM based game, after all.
This is the life of a support no matter what meta is currently being ran. Given how bloated some of their kits are, it’s no wonder they’re the primary targets. Opposing teams tend to die a lot faster without an uncontested support constantly healing them.
Again, team issue. And definitely not a valid reason to balance around it. You said yourself, the options to counteract already exist. It’s just that non-pro players typically don’t recognize it.
What’s the problem with this, exactly? You shouldn’t be able to “outduel” anything. But, with the support kit bloat it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility. I’m not saying supports should be completely defenseless, but at the same time, if they can potentially outduel basically any non tank hero, there’s a problem.
This is like me saying that it’s a problem that I’m not being healed as Tank while being positioned well. It’s not great yes but a team problem is not the fault of a role’s existence
Supports didn’t balance anything. Do you think support mains joined the balance team?
Go Brig and get harassed by your team and even possibly the enemy team just for picking her.
Brig used to be a fix to dive. She’s not anymore. And she wasn’t a fix because of what she did against flankers, but how she stopped WinDva by herself.
Which does incredibly well in a 1v1, especially against Genji, yes.
And is basically a ticket to get banned by playing her.
Yes, Kiriko is incredibly safe, but going kiriko Lucio every game gets stale.
Because 1v3 this is very realistic. Let me guess - after this everyone claps, Albert Einstein shakes your hand and calls you a genius, and they immediately make you the leader of the country you live in.
Baptiste can 1v1 super easily if you have good mechanics. 1v2 is only consistently doable if you’re smurfing. 1v3 requires 3 insane mess ups from all 3.
If Moira was changed to be viable in non metal ranks, she would be another great answer to these metas.
If you not being healed while positioned well was the result of say a Mercy Lucio meta where Lucio just did his own thing all game then it would be comparable.
And if that sort of meta happened it would also absolutely be an issue.
