I was specifically commenting about the amount of damage. You are arguing the effectiveness of her ultimate. As a Reinhardt player I still get the lion’s share Pulse Bombs. When I do 9 times out of 10 it leads to my death. The nerfs effectiveness was almost nil in your average game.
I watched enough OWL to see that happening.
Having ults alone doesn’t win you the game. Ults are tools, and not your win condition.
An tanks are actually very good at tanking ults.
Yeah, you listed 2 tank ults.
If you think about it, an ulting Genji is just a hyperactive squishy Reinhardt,
Fun fact: Pulse bomb does 300 damage.
You misunderstood the context there.
It isn’t directly about Roadhog, it’s about tanks, which Roadhog is.
buddy play heroes more before suggesting things that make no sense and stupid.
It means you have more at your disposal than the enemy, increasing the odds of winning by default.
And Storm Arrow is just a hyperactive Mccree FTH, so what?
Let’s drop this, I don’t want to derail the thread, this isn’t about ultimates nor DPS heroes, Rocktopus is trying to address tanks, so let’s both stop arguing.
Even if that is the damage component, which if it is that, is still only less than half the health of 2 tanks. One of them you shouldn’t be using pulse bomb on anyway because he is far too mobile.
Please elaborate then on what I misunderstood.
The thread is mainly about the armor nerf, which Roadhog has none of.
So? 11 ults in one match is better than 10. An enemy Hog can net you tire after tire if thats what you’re going for.
Yeah but it certainly pops up more than it should on the forums because X tank has high damage.
I don’t think a majority of any role is pushing for or against forced 2-2-2.
Ok thats fair.
Mei has her primary to control space around her and her icicles are a much better way to poke and deal damage than the scrap gun. Her sustain doesn’t make her an ult battery, ice wall speaks for itself, and her ult is better at cc and elims than whole hog. Plus SNOATS is much more effective than Hog GOATS.
There are going to be exceptions.
Most of them are pretty inconsistent at mid range if they can even shoot that far. Big difference between lobbing alt fires as Zarya or Hog or shooting with McCree or Ashe.
I said low or inconsistent. Winston and Rein have low damage, Orisa, Roadhog, and D.va have nutty spread, Hammond has a bit of both, and Zarya has to earn her damage by getting consistent value out of her abilities.
You need a Lucio and constant healing for Rein, and Zarya needs a Rein. Orisa needs peeling and defending. Dive tanks need teammates to follow through and constant healing. Hog is the only one who is self sufficient, and its its ironically what’s holding him back since being hard enabled doesn’t benifit Hog like it does Rein.
Dps can make much better use of cover, range, and more self-defense oriented cooldowns like flashbang or dynamite. Lower hp means healing is needed even less.
Besides Hammond, dive tanks are still the slowest mobility heroes. Jump pack and boosters aren’t no jetpack, blink, genji dash, or what have you.
Hog relies on hook to get value and its an 8 sec cooldown. Reinhardt’s only ranged option also takes 8 seconds. Zarya has to wait 8 and 10 seconds for bubbles. Orisa’s protection, the thing that justifies her terrible hitbox, 12 second cooldown. Isn’t adaptive shields also something like 10-12 seconds, and slam is long too.
Reaper being bad is Reaper’s problem, not a reason to nerf a whole role.
People think they are ready for this but… The queue times will be horrible for DPS players. In FFXIV most times is 15m to some queues being 35mins when it comes to leveling DPS.
What’d be even worse is that even if it were to be made optional, most Tanks and Healers would use 2-2-2 since they would generally get really short queue times, since those roles are the ones that have high demand.
If you used a non 2-2-2 setting after it were put in place, you’d more than likely have a team of 4-6 DPS every match because they don’t want to wait that long.
But it evidently doesn’t increase it enough to balance out the tanks inherently higher power.
There are also a bunch of ways to block pulse bomb.
The point is, it can assassinate a squishy hero, but not a real threat to tanks.
The guy I replied to said that dps heroes don’t want team work, and I called that ironic.
It also mentions people wanting a damage nerf, which is actually justified imo.
The issue isn’t that Reaper isn’t meta, it’s that none of the dps are.
Reaper isn’t weak, he is actually getting nerfed.
Dps heroes just can’t go up against tanks, because they are not tanks themselves.
The other problem that forced 2/2/2 does is cause more balance problems. Why would I ever pick Sym when I can pick other DPS heroes in that slot that are far better?
I don’t know what tank your talking about but if it’s prods I don’t blame blizzard. No one in the overwatch community ever wants omnics to be playable despite omnics is an overwatch thing they are doing too much into diversity.
Fun maybe, most people up until high elos usually play the heroes they love regardless of power, but other than that Symm being one of the weaker DPS would mean less of a reason to select her in a role where only 2 DPS are allowed at any given time.
Forced 2-2-2 is a horrible idea.
It’d eliminate the chance of heroes ever getting balanced cross class for one…
Tanks and supports shouldn’t make up their lack of fun with raw power to force people in those roles.
Are you referring to Hybrid heroes or situations where a hero gets swapped from one class onto another [Like Symmetra from Support to DPS]?
That’s what I’m saying, Sym currently doesn’t have anything to justify her pick in a forced 2/2/2 setting besides being fun.
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I’m talking about tanks, supports and dps heroes being directly compared.
If anybody were to call Moira OP, people would start pointing out that she is actually one of the lesser picked supports at higher ELO, when the issue is that she can run over dps heroes too easily, while being a main healer.
There is also the issue of people starting to ramble something about apples and oranges… But they are all heroes in the same game, they NEED to be compared.
These weren’t the nerfs we actually want.
We want tanks to be less effective killers who replace DPS. We didn’t ask for tanks to be less tanky, and everyone thought the Reaper buff was stupid.
She is good for teleporting people around, locking down areas, and I specifically play her for her high primary fire damage.
It’s a shame Zarya does more damage than her, but that’s on tanks needing a damage nerf.
Why should a singular Damage Dealer Ultimate be a threat to tanks?
If I use Earthshatter and Tracer gets hit she is my last priority to kill. More than likely since she has 100 health left and the stun isn’t long enough to guarantee a kill on her before she uses Recall its wasted damage to focus her. Tracers job is to harass and kill supports, why does she need a component to also kill tanks? Lastly, I repeat if I eat a full Pulse Bomb it more than likely I am dead anyway, even though it does less damage now.
You replied to me, and I don’t see the irony. Damage Dealers want to be the star of the show. They want the least amount of responsibility and feel that their gameplay should be paramount in how the match plays out.
Tanks only compete in damage if your DPS are incompetent, or you are watching pro players.
Ok yeah but that’s only because they literally aren’t tanks. Mei gets played in GOATS because she’s a dps with enough tank properties that enabling her with high healing and utilities is effective. Meanwhile, the fat oinking dps himself is the worst tank.
The meta right now is all about brawling. Dps are designed to assissinate are target through the enemies’ defenseses with precision, range, mobility, and fast killing times.
None of that matters right now tho, because the fight is being waged by melee immortals brawling it out until the team with the most ults first wins. Brawly dps like Mei would actually be even more meta right now if they weren’t rare, niche, and weak. Its not that dps as a role isn’t good, its that the best way to dps right now is to be like Reaper, and for the reasons I described it makes more sense to stack supports and off-tanks.
Agreed, but i don’t think thats what happening. People would be playing 2-2-2 reaper and mei deathballs to crush GOATS except utilities are too good to pass up, especially for two of the weaker dps heroes. Besides, how are you going to have high healing without three supports, play Moira? Maybe people would, except all she’s good at is staying alive and keeping tanks alive.[quote=“Mitrovarr-1405, post:57, topic:318811”]
These weren’t the nerfs we actually want.
We want tanks to be less effective killers who replace DPS. We didn’t ask for tanks to be less tanky,
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Those armor nerfs had me dancing a jig. The key to making tanks not replace dps is to not let supports enable them that far.