Widow and Hanzo Favoritism... +more

General Discussion
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To start off, I don’t want them gutted and useless. They devs have shown time and time again that there is a bias towards these two characters. Where other characters would and have been nerfed/changed more for being less pains than these two, they continue to get slaps on the wrist.

The changes on the ptr will not help other dps characters feel much better but it will further the gap in effectiveness of burst damage and sustain damage meaning people will continue to blame healing and push for more support nerfs in which case, I’m betting on Ana’s nade getting nerfed next.

I’m fine with a IF nerf. It is a pretty powerful ability. Completely stopping death is crazy strong and it could even nullify ults. However, it had more counterplay and setbacks (allowed you to get to low hp, stationary, cooldown, etc…) than Widow’s sniper shot which literally allows for absolutely no counterplay for a majority of the cast.

The developers have proven that they do not care about fluidity (Doomfist), stats (Sombra), or changing core parts of a character’s kit (Sym, Mercy). These are just a few examples. They have also shown that they absolutely want to influence metas and even make sure certain characters make it or don’t make it into the next meta (nerfing Sombra before 2-2-2 yet leaving Reaper and Mei with their GOATS buffs)

Various times have they used how it feels to play against a character or ability as justification to change or nerf it yet people have been saying how horrible it feels to get instantly killed from anywhere on the map by Widow and burst down by Hanzo much longer than they have been complaining about double-barrier comps and the barrier tanks got multiple changes so it wouldn’t feel so bad yet the core issues with Widow and Hanzo remain unaddressed (their burst damage).

Widows kit not having much to it is not an excuse to leave the poorly designed hero as she is. Her having a niche is also not an excuse as they have changed/removed multiple other character niches in the past.
Give her more things in her kit if you have to, you’ve done it before.

If healing keeps getting nerfed, abilities that completely nullify it should get toned down as well. If Supports could not heal at all, Widow and Hanzo would still be better than Soldier 76 due to their burst damage and it’s ease of application.

Tanks don’t have to be shieldbots or fat damage characters but they get melted so quickly that it isn’t hard to see why double shield is still going strong. This is not a Widow/Hanzo exclusive problem either. Every time a Support has a decent utility ability to support their team, it gets nerfed and the support player still gets blamed for not pulling miracles. Tank players get blamed for not making space or dropping shields and sometimes the complaints are warranted but other times, the tank has to try to make space while also not getting separated, burst down, and trying not to let the enemy burst down their supports.

No role is braindead easy but it isn’t hard to see why damage is more popular than the other two. This is marketed as a team game yet the damage roster has characters who are much more independent than everyone else in the game and rely on support way less. The game is filled with characters who are well equipped to do their job plus much more and others who are barely equipped to do their basic job and a lot of that is because of poor design and poor balance choices.

I’m not saying the devs are lazy, they work hard and have made good decisions such as the translocator buff, I like that. But there needs to be more and their bias towards certain characters needs to be stopped.

The tank and support rosters need more characters, not saying as much as the damage roster but the gap should be closer. Tank=/=barrier, Support =/= heal-focused abilities. The whole damage category needs rebalancing and power redistributions to a lot of the character’s kits.

Rant over. Please excuse but don’t forget to call out and make fun of any typos and/or grammatical errors. A lot of these are my opinions but some are facts such as “feelings” being a balance factor which can be proven by balance patch logs which are available to the public.

One last time, I want each character to be good at something including Widow and Hanzo but I also want them to not receive special treatment that they continue to receive. Have a good one.

12 Likes
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I can understand where you’re coming from with Hanzo, surprisingly, but it all falls apart for me with Widow.

I don’t see the favoritism… it’s like saying Bastion is being given special treatment by… being ignored and not having anything done to him?

Widow is arguably not as impactful as some believe she is, and even though i too would love if her kit had more variety, this should not come at the expense of her primary fire, as i’m sure you’d love if it simply was removed all together.
(If anything the most simple change would be to raise the charge each shot would require before dealing peak damage, that’s why the charge meter is there in the first place.)

And i do agree, we need more Tanks and the DPS roster should be moved around.

Heroes like Bastion and maybe even Mei should be reworked slightly and moved to the Tank roster, to give it some very well deserved variety.

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Ahh yes. Classic pixel racism.

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Don’t say that too loudly the ladder might hear you and burn down your house. If it isn’t double barrier with two main supports they don’t want it.

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I generally agree with you. Widow doesn’t have a hard DPS counter with skills that oppose her own mechanics, and she very much needs one. Maybe this D.Va buff will help, but who knows? The Sigma shield instant projection time was a good way to zone her out (in a meta where you didn’t need a second barrier as much).

The issue is either that one-shot headshots have no counterplay and that’s bad design, or that maps have too many open spaces or unforgivable sightlines in key areas, and that’s bad design. I keep saying Ashe is everything Widow should’ve been, and now she’s redundant. I also think there are too many hitscans (or too many very powerful hitscan DPS) in the game. DF’s punch is pretty rough, but it’s not without counterplay.

I see that as favouritism. Bastion and Mei use very different DPS skillsets than most other characters, why would you want to take that away from people to make them tanks, instead? Also, Bastion has had a rework/recalibration, and Mei’s wall has been heavily nerfed from what it used to be.

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Her having that extreme burst is not only holding her kit back but also helping her dominate over other dps characters. If her kit got a boost, it would need to be toned down via cooldown or damage. I could see it (the ohk) being a part of her ult with other kit additions. Less charge time and more ammo as well but only a part of her ult.

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Are you seriously calling that failed bull feces a rework?

DPS dealing Tanks, yes. A hybrid. Tanks don’t just have to soak up damage you know.

I’ve even made a proposed rework that would turn Bastion into a DPS Tank.
Found here: [New year, new Bastion. 🤖]

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Triple Tracers picked in OWL 1, and Tracer gets a had counter added and Widow isn’t touched at all.

Goats becomes a thing in response to double sniper.

Goats gets nerfed and double sniper comes back briefly.

Sig gets added, they swap to double shield to counter double sniper.

They nerf sheilds.

Hanzo returns for a third time. And the meta is still about trying to have as many high sustaining heros as possible that can at least have a chance of not being one shot. Like Mei, Bapt, Orisa and Sig.

The game couldn’t revolve around Widow and Hanzo anymore if they tried.

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So i just wrote out a long reply and posted it… now it doesn’t exist.

Good going forums.

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I said rework/recalibration. It’s literally right there.

I do know. Roadhog, Ball, and Winston exist. I’m saying it’s interesting you seem to want Widow how she is but Mei and Bastion moved to the tank category. How about you propose how you’d make Widow a tank or healer, instead? Full headshot on a teammate gives them a shield, heal, or bubble?

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And it still failed.

Ah yes, i totally wanna play the brainwashed unfeeling healer.

That’s just now how the character is written.

She’s an opportunistic damage dealer, a sniper who is feast or famine, and trying to claim that it’s “Just bad design” Is also a fallacy to begin with.

All snipers are this way, looking for very specific moments to apply their skill sets.

Look at Ana, the hero you’re actually looking for.
A sniper with the capability to heal, because her shots out of scope are projectiles, balancing out the rest of her kit’s high value ability when applied correctly.

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I play Moira all the time.

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GOATs became a thing because of Brig being mega OP.

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Good joke.

Moira is more of a sociopath scientist, who knows exactly how she feels… and is okay with it. She drains the life from her enemies, and uses that force to restore the lives she sees fit.

Moira has a god complex, Widow has a slave complex.
Literally polar opposites.

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Sounds like things need to stop countering snipers so snipers can get nerfed. Double snipers keep getting one upped.

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Game’s been “who has the better sniper simulator” for so long that I’ve lost hope it will ever change for the better

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i think they are just waiting for the results from OWL tbh.
but they did nudge a lot of things that was currently meta.

i think it’s just a hope they nudged it past some abstract breaking points so other things became more viable against them.

but we’ll see i suppose.

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I mean the joke here is you thinking your interpretation is the only one that’s accurate. Widow, I’m sure, does what is required of her in the scope of Talon objectives. So if her gun was either modified to shield teammates or what have you, I doubt she’d care too much. Especially if she’s brainwashed. On top of that, they can write in whatever lore or changes they like, so that argument doesn’t really hold up for me.

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If you think widow is impactful in this meta outside of ladder you’re too stupid to be allowed to have an opinion.

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Yea… not buying the “Widow shields teammates” thing.

Just not buying that.

Doesn’t fit, never would fit, and i dislike this idea that “Everything is flexible as long as you accept it all as change” nope.

1 Like