You’re still not going to be running into 90 frag Widows.
I guarantee it.
My point is this is clearly an exception, and OP is trying to balance the game around it.
No, you’re putting words in their mouth, they said this is what can be done in the right hands or something like that, but pros shouldn’t be allowed to get that much value on a single hero, obviously most of the player base doesn’t experience it but when a widow is just clicking heads there’s nothing you can do about it, similar to how reaper used to be at low ranks I suppose
1 Like
I mean no dive heroes could ever pressure a widow
DvA, Winston, Hammond, Doom, basically anyone who can close the gap and force her out of a sight line or into a fight
Exactly this. The extent to which a single hero tilts the game in a team’s favor is just absurd.
The way you and OP are describing it is as if Widow is getting 90 frags every game.
The whole reason this is a headline is literally because of how rare it is.
Yes. One person had one good game. Big woop. It still means nothing about how Widow performs on average, even when exclusively looking at high level play.
Winston jump is 22m max, widows new falloff starts at 60 (granted she ain’t always gonna be that far) but any good widow will just stay more than a dive out of range, even on close range maps like kings row you still have to commit 2 sets of movement abilities to get onto her then she just says no and goes somewhere else, it’s much harder to get to widow than it is for her to click a head
Can any other hero do this?
It doesn’t take 90 frags to carry a game. The number 90 is not the point.
Watch some GM streams on Twitch and maybe keep track of how many games are dictated by snipers hard carrying.
There’s a reason why people find Ashe and Widow painfully oppressive at Diamond+, which probably represents ~10% of the population. So you’d say ignore those 10%? While of course, in lower ranks, there are clear alternatives to Ashe and Widow for those who cannot aim?
Yes, Diamond and Master’s players are not GM players, but they are good enough to mimic them to some extent. These heroes are downright oppressive. Especially now that double barriers are gone.
Congratz. He did his job.
Any hero can be played exceptionally above average for one single game and hard carry because of it, yes.
Of course the exact specifics vary from hero to hero, but any hero can be used to pop off with if the player is good enough.
I’m not saying ignoring anyone. Everyone deserves a say. But that does mean everyone. You’re the one who seems to be implying that we should ignore the other 90% for the benefit of the 10%.
Either way, I’m just saying that even among the exceptions, you’re using an exception as an example. Then when that’s shot down you resort to random anecdotes that you even admit are dated because you’re not in Diamond anymore to even see this stuff happening yourself. This thread accomplishes nothing.
So basically, nerf a hero because some people are too good with them.
No, that’s not how that works. You nerf things that provide oppressive value for far less risk and skill. Widow and Ashe are strong, but only because they don’t have much left to compete or pressure them. But you have to be skilled, and really invest time to get to that level, where the enemy is struggling to deal with you.
Did you disagree with the reaper nerf? Didn’t affect any of the shiney ranks so why shouldn’t they get to play reaper?
Exactly. We are in agreement!
Evidently not
You don’t understand how good people need to be at Widow, Ashe, heck a lot of heroes to be honest to those kind of results
Even in their prime, dive hero’s typically couldn’t pressure a Widow. She literally replaced Genji in Dive.
That’s a bit far-reaching and arrogant, don’t you think? When I see top tier Genji players like Shadder2k just give up and switch to Ashe, I think it speaks volumes as to which hero outputs much more for the same amount of effort put in.
Just logically speaking, Ashe and Widow are hitscan heroes that can one shot from a long range with escape abilities far exceeding that of McCree or soldier. If that is not lower risk and also lower skill (not in terms of aiming but definitely in terms of game sense and positioning), I don’t know what is. Compared to a hero like soldier, those heroes are only more aim intensive. And that’s it. Hell, I’d even say McCree’s probably harder given how little mobility he has. And of course, Cree is aim intensive as hell.
As a matter of fact, I don’t know of a single FPS game in which snipers have more mobility than the rest of the cast. This is clearly a moronic design flaw that needs to be fixed. And don’t give me the old as time BS that Overwatch is not an FPS.
Maybe not by sheer number of eliminiations.
Ashe, however, has been the most-picked Damage hero in Gold over the last month and still has a 52% winrate. That’s absurdly high for Gold - especially considering her pickrate and her supposed ‘skill’ requirement.
This line of argument has always annoyed me.
How good people are with that hero isn’t the point. If a hero gets many instances of disproportionate value, which in turn causes them to be the most consistent way to win for most of the relevant rank, then they’re overpowered in that rank.
A high risk, high reward hero needs to be inconsistent to be balanced. As soon as they become too consistent their design starts to break. It doesn’t matter if this is through skill or the meta changing. Without the inconsistency they lose the high risk aspect. To put it another way, high risk is an ever changing definition.
This applies to Widow but especially applies to Ashe. Her stats are far too high and far too consistent all the way down to silver/gold to be considered high risk. She’s purely high reward and needs either her consistency or reward bringing down.
No, it’s really not
DPS have never defined the meta, when you play DPS you pick the hero that is able to do the most given the circumstances. Genji is too reliant on others to get value, Ashe is not, if you’re good with her and can hit your shots she’s excellent. Most people simply can’t do that with her Viper, hence all the people complaining she’s bad now…because she requires proper ammo management, cool down management, and optimal aim to work.
The other heroes are simply not able to provide enough value because they are niche, Blizzard should have reworked a good chunk of the DPS cast since people got so used to running more than 2 at any given time, as well as the picks being entirely dependent on what Main Tank and Main Support you’re running.