I feel like people often forget a very basic premise of a team game, you often have to do roles or jobs you do not like.
People may not like playing Tank because they donāt have as much freedom. But a Tank who can shoot things, negate damage, a ton of healthā¦thatās text book op. You have to have risks and downsides associated with a character design, thatās the whole point of a Class Based FPS, your weaknesses are made up for by your team, otherwise we might as well just play an Arena Shooter where itās every man for himself.
We need to think about different ways we can do the roles needed, Tank should just be called Control, cause their goal is entirely based on controlling areas of the map. Either denying or taking space from the enemy, and providing just enough protection for their allies to do what they need to do.
If people arenāt having fun as Tank, maybe itās because of all the CC or Stuns that make it borderline impossible, or maybe itās because Blizzard keeps nerfing their shields or methods of peeling without actually fixing how they work. Like why can Zarya self bubble AND damage at the same time? Why can Orisa place one shield after another rather than just having a recall?
There are so few tank players because most of them quit the game after Sigma being released into the game in a more broken state than Brig 1.0 which not only destroyed the meta for half a year into a boring double barrier clown fiesta (in which Orisa was super boring to play even if you like playing her in any other situation) which also happened to cost almost every tank in some way. It took one hero release for the whole role to receive massive nerfs overall which is infuriating especially since tank meta was at itās peak prior to Sigmaās release but during the role lock. All they needed to do at that time was something like nerf Orisaās pull range and it wouldāve all been good. Instead we got a patch that made a huge chunk of tank players outright quit OW and move onto other games and itās not like after that patch either of the other 2 roles want to start playing tanks, on the contrary a lot of players that sometimes flexed into tanks just stopped doing so
If you want more tank players revert the tanks as they were before, rework Sigma so he doesnāt synergize that well with Orisa and give Orisa a slight nerf that doesnāt consider her barrier. Maybe thatāll attract some decent tank players back into the game
Give tanks more damage resistance, lower their damage and give them more utility like cc. Decrease the cc outside the tank role so they can move in an outlast damage without necessarily doing more dmg.
The idea the tanks need supports to function is incredibly dumb. It forces high hps and lowers tank solo effectiveness.
Make tanks more like tanks and scale back dmg and healing. Move the game to more utility focus.
Supports being valued for their hps, and not their supporting utility is a limiting focus when it comes to support design. Create more utility like dmg reduction, slow, speed up, poison and potions, etc.
Tanks need their identity and so do supports. This is a team game but that doesnāt mean you need someone shoving healing up your bum to be tanky and you shouldnāt need to focus on hitting people with the yellow beam 24/7 without having the opportunity to use utility to sway a team fight.
This is why people donāt have fun on these roles. Mindset behind their designs are limiting. You have favorites like WB, Winston, Dva, Ana,Zarya, Lucio and Zen because they move away from the āTeam dependentā mindset. With these characters you are constantly making solo plays and not thinking about where your heals/protection is.
TLDR: tanks need independence in the form of flat dmg reductions and more utility, you can lower their dps as long as they can still take space. Supports need less focus on Hps and more utility.
I donāt think I can get behind the changes for main tanks unless armor changes to flat dmg resistance. Lowering their health but increasing armor make them far weaker to sustain dmg.
Idk. If I want to kill I pick dps and if I want to outlast dmg Iād like tanks to be that role. I want tanking to come from more than a barrier.
I donāt mind less hps in fact I prefer that so that supports donāt have to focus on healing as much but I want flat dmg mitigation for all armor, not armor that is more effective vs burst but not sustain. Tanks should not be getting 1v1 by your average dps. Tanks and especially main tanks should be tanky with or without a barrier.
Idk. I feel far worse dying quickly as a tank than anything else. I donāt have fun playing for dmg as a tank, making peopleās back off is enough, but being afraid of damage without a support is the worst feeling as a tanks and forces me to be dependent on strangers. Thatās why I care so much about tanking dmg and why I want armor to change.
The three reasons you listed above are big draws of DPS heroes. If we want to fix the problems that you addressed, then we would essentially be turning every tank into a so-called āfat DPS,ā as the forum likes to call them
And while this might indeed make the tank role more engaging, it might also drastically change the game as a whole. Right now, teams need a barrier of some sort to survive, because of the sheer damage outputted by the enemy. Teams need a dedicated protector to mitigate all that damage, otherwise people would just die in an instant!
So, if we were to go with your proposed changes, weād need an across-the-board damage nerf as well.
I found much more identifiable issues with tanking apart from all the good points made above
reaper - a hero that can kill any 2 tanks in 3-4 seconds and then easily escape (low ranks). As a tank the game can be completely ruined just by there being a reaper on the other team dropping in each fight and 1 or both of you out.
sombra - I used to play Sigma and in several games I got hacked every time I came back from spawn. It was zero fun.
spam - as a shield tank, spam heroes that do lots of damage with no or minimal aim, especially to take down you barrier as soon as it goes up, are zero fun (junk, pharah, symm m2, etc). As the tank at the front you take most of the damage from spam.
long CC - sleep and hack specifically - yep, they mostly hit tanks
turrets - being at the front you are first to be hit by a torb turret and generally if it is fairly well positioned there is nothing you can do about it except maybe as Orisa or DVa (who thought auto-aim crap was a good idea anyway?). First to be hit by symm turrets too often.
The biggest issue is that you are hard targeted by everything (as others pointed out). You are up front and the other team is going to focus you. You have some small chance of surviving the whole fight and heroes like sombra and reaper (and torb if someone else doesnāt deal with his turret) can just destroy your whole game. Often I know 20 seconds into a game it is going to be a nightmare and Iāve just left those games in the past (in QP).
(all comments represent only a low-rank player - higher ranks will obviously laugh at finding reaper and sombra problematic)
People do not like tanks because it almost impossible to do gold damage and kills as a tank. A specially in Bronze/Silver. It such as dip hole that you must play as Grandmaster to get out of it. I do not even talk about supports. It is gg, you can play like top 500 (Moira/Mercy) and get only 50% wr. Why? Because how you are supposed to win if your 1-2 of your teammates (dps) either throwing the game or do not kill anyone or daeing in a less then 3 sec. This game to dependable on your teammates. Since main problem that more often than rare dps throwing, have little idea of comps it become obvious. That if you want to climb high in rank you must play as dps. There are little/ no respect for Tanks or Healers in this game what so ever and a SPECIALLY FROM DEVS themselves. You can play Ana or Baptist to climb up rank as Healer, but what if your main is not Baptist or Ana
Also, I want to point out that support very dependent on how well dps and Tanks are playing. More often then rare dps just throwing supports under the bus. Since the release the community and avg skill went down dramatically
Iād just like to say something here, this isnāt true of all people. Personally I like guarding my team mates. Peeling is like my favorite thing to do in this game. Itās specifically why my most played characters include Dva and Brig.
But Iām not playing a lot of tanks either.
Well why? I am the supposed freak that likes ābabysittingā my team mates. Why arenāt I playing tanks? If I might add my own two cents the state of tanks is just awful. There are waaaay too many options for tank busting now and youāre usually reliant on your team mates to do something about them. Having to yell āsomebody save meā every 30 seconds is a miserable experience.
Iām not surprised people arenāt signing up in droves for it.
You are right that they are more easily focused by cc and damage. Iād ask if theyāre even all that durable though looking at how fast a Reaper can tear apart an Orisa or a Dva. How fast Dvaās mech in general dies etc.
As someone who enjoys tanks a lot. The thing that really kills their āfun factorā for me, is their absolute dependence on the team. āIām only as good as my teamā is a core concept in overwatch, but no other role feels that restriction as heavily as tanks. When people invest resources into you, its an amazing high, when they donāt, its a horrible low.
Because theyāre slow, have to stand around a lot babysitting, get CCed constantly. They also tend to not do much damage with the exception of the only semi-popular tanks.
Iāve seen the idea for a hitscan/sniper barrier tank floating around, and itās not that terrible of an idea, unless youāve got a good grasp of how to not make it broken or OP.
Itās possible for a decent tank to look like a T500 player when they have an organized team that uses the space they create, fights around them, and properly supports them and communicates with them.
That exact same tank can look like Bronze feeder without their team behind them.
I have had some of the most amazing games on tank when the DPS were helping finish the targets Iād weakened and my support was healing me once in a while.
Iāve also had the worst games on tank, that tilted me to the point of shutting down for the night when I press āWā and get stunned, rocked, booped, or frozen just to die slowly calling for heals (or help of any kind).
Tanks must have teammates helping them to do well.
Tanking is unpopular because it is perceived as boring or as a punching bag. However, both perceptions are only true if you are bad at the role. The truth of the matter is, tanks are the most impactful and (when played correctly) the most powerful role in the game.
And honestly, I do not want that to change. Let tanking be hard and inaccessible: that is what makes the role so special and so amazing to me. I have been a tank main for as long as I have been playing this game. Iāve sunk hundreds of hours into tank characters (mostly Rein, but I also have played a lot of Orisa and Sigma, and a decent amount of Zarya and Winston), and honestly can say that they all have the greatest depth of any hero in the game (apart from Ana and Lucio in the support category).
Funny thing is that this is what the developers expected. Jeff said that in the beginning, they knew Tank would be the least played role and did stuff on that thought, until of course, everyone and their worship of the almighty 2-2-2 meta changed that drastically.
Also I would just like to point out that the only reason we have 2-2-2 lock is not because of 5 DPS, but because of GOATs.
