She is a well balanced, fun to play, and effective hero
She is and always has been a main healer
Those who dont feel she is these things have over 2 dozen other characters to choose from and thousands of other games to play instead
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sorry because I didn’t read your whole post but this statement reminded me of something I read, possibly on this thread actually just can’t remember who said it and I’m too lazy to go through it all
Statistically one hero will always be at the top and one hero will always be at the bottom, there’s 7 supports currently and even if all of them were perfectly balanced the people who look at Mercy negatively would complain even if the difference was .1%, just because she’s at the bottom (which she isn’t…Moira is the one at the bottom) or being less picked than other supports doesn’t mean she’s “trash”, most likely it means she’s out of the meta
People complain a lot about Ana being at the top now but in reality Ana is the only one who should be at the top considering how hard her kit is to use in comparison, even moira being at the bottom means nothing, the character is perfectly fine and nor her nor Mercy have direct 100% counters (unlike Tracer when brig was super OP)
So what is it then? why can’t people understand that Mercy is statistically fine? if she’s boring to you that’s one thing but don’t try to argue her viability saying that she’s the “worst” support by far, because she isn’t!
also I realized I just ranted at you but this post is more directed to the rest of the people following this thread xD sorry about that
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Do you even remember what your original point was?
Like, you’re saying brigitte was added and ana was buffed, two completely different incidents that were months apart, and that somehow invalidates the only change on mercy was her healing nerf from when she was a 100% pick.
You then went on to try to say that goats was already destroying teams when mercy had 60hp’s, which is a lie, and had absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.
Either you’re attempting to move the goalposts or you’re off on a seriously random tangent.
So let me say it again. Support balance patch and brigitte patch, two totally different patches. Mercy at 60hps, was still being played in triple support, grav dragon and one shot. Ana was still F tier. Brigitte was out for all of those.
a tank heavy meta? Ana shouldn’t compete with mercy… in a tank heavy meta?
her winrate, that’s actually lower than mercy’s even in masters, is too good at supporting non tank heavy comps?
Or is this where you’re trying to say gold wasn’t running tanks with zarya, d.va and rein being in the top 6.
well they’re certainly playing more tanks and supports than dps, the pickrate really doesn’t lie in that regard.
??? You showed mercy and ana playing together in 3/2/1 in owl. We know the meta comp was brig/zen/lucio from the link i provided showing hero pickrates for overwatch league this season. Not ana or mercy.
So basically you’re saying ana dunks on mercy cause they’re both neither meta and played together? Like, you realize how ridiculous that claim is right?
It didn’t, stop lying.
Never said they were. I did say they were playing tank heavy however, and given the pickrates of them, there is actually a pretty great chance they’ve been played together numerous times.
and just for the record, you were actually trying to build this strawman all along, i get it now.
Look. Mercy is perfectly viable in every single elo right now. There is nothing bad about her. The meta is even shifting to one that she excels at with pharmercy and one shot coming back, as well as different bunker comps.
You’re mad that ana’s pick rate is high, and somehow think that means she’s overtuned, but you’re completely neglecting the fact 85% of the player base are actually doing horrible with her, and would be better off running mercy… who still has respectable pick rates and better winrates.
I’m not entirely sure the complaint here. Bad players do bad with Ana? like, yeah, that’s kinda the point. Are you trying to say ana does better than mercy the better an ana player is? I mean, put ana in dive and see who fairs better, mercy or ana.
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Honestly, I think the issue isn’t with Mercy herself, it’s with the state of the game. It’s all about burst right now, really. Sustain damage heroes like Soldier and Bastion don’t really have a place. And when you’re looking for a main support, you want someone with high burst at the moment. Hence Ana. Long term sustain doesn’t have a place in the game right now. It’s been this way for a while.
Mercy was only able to stick around for as long as she did because people were able to build comps that she could enable best. But now that people have comps that really make the most out of the burst that heroes like Ana can make use of, Mercy’s starting to move with the rest of the sustain heroes.
Like, that’s what I think the issue is. It’s all about burst at the moment that the sustain Mercy brings isn’t what the team needs or wants. Again, they could build the team to be enabled by Mercy, but when it comes down to it, it’s really about burst. The only sustained healing that the team will take is AoE sustained healing.
So yeah, Mercy isn’t the worst support. If we’re talking about worst support, Moira probably wins that one. She is the only support that has absolutely no utility to speak of. After that, probably Brigitte since she can only get the most out of her kit in brawl comps, and then Mercy after that. She’s about in the middle of the pack.
But I still understand why they’re frustrated. For me, the biggest frustration for me is that they nerfed her and buffed her competition in the same patch. I feel they should have buffed Ana and Moira, and wait and see what happens. And if Mercy still dominates and there are no signs of her dropping, then go ahead and drop the healing nerf. As it stands, we really have no way of knowing if 60HP/s was really the problem, or if it was something to do with chain beams or rez.
They did the same thing with Ana back in S4 too, I believe. They nerfed her and then buffed Winston, one of her biggest counters, in the same patch. Ana did get hurt harder back then, granted, but it’s more or less the same song and dance. Just a different verse.
Oh, and don’t worry about it! I don’t mind reading rants at all, really. It’s essentially a word vomit and you’re getting all this off your chest and the more words we vomit, the better. Makes for pretty good discussion when we go off on rants like that!
And if you kept reading, you would have also gotten this:
I play in around gold and plat. Tank heavy comps are a rarity here. At least from what I’ve seen. Tanks in general are rare here, especially main tanks. Just about any comp works, so long as you have at least one tank or one support (unless the enemy team has more tanks or supports than you, then results may vary). I’ve seen just about anything from 4-1-1 to 2-2-2, but 3-3 has almost never been played. Or any triple tank comp for that matter. The only time I’ve seen 3-3 is from a 6-stack. I’ve watched it on OWL and heard about it so much that I want to play it to get a better idea of just how it works, but nobody runs it down in gold and plat. It’s been triple DPS, quad DPS, or 2-2-2. The last time I’ve seen a team run a tank heavy comp in those ranks was S3. Ever since then, it’s been a variety, then dive (or at least mid-rank uncoordinated dive), and then variety again.
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I agree with you it’s more the state of the game, but i wouldn’t say it’s all about burst. We’re running really tanky comps specifically so teams don’t get bursted down. Sustain healing was mandatory for dive and one shot specifically, since you wanted to stay max hp or you would be bursted down. You could say burst healing is better for tank heavy comps, and it only stands to reason. You want those tanks healed as quick as possible, so they don’t get bursted down, which even in goats they still do.
yeah i completely neglected to touch that part intentionally. If your theory was correct, which mind you it does have some merrit, but lacks context, then plat would never have had dive dps hero’s in their top 6 during dive, it would have been tanks. There meta tanks were there, but so was the meta dps, and the meta healers.
basically you’re right, the pick rates are slightly skewed. But you’re seriously over exaggerating how much they’re skewed by.
I can understand this, sadly we can only hope for blizz to know more than what they give out
That being said, I would like it if you checked out my proposed changes to Mercy that I made on the workshop:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/mercy-4-0-by-hige
Since I made it with the mindset of giving mercy the option of increasing her sustained healing on a single target briefly and also giving her burst healing upon casting valk, I think this is the perfect middle ground for everyone on these discussions, those who want mass rez and those who dont, those who want mercy buffed and those who don’t, she plays almost the same but has these added things that makes her so much more dynamic which also targets those who find her boring and those who like her current playstyle…
Because ana players are crybabies and will cry and moan if any healer has more healing
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I actually went through the pickrates according to overbuff to see what was getting picked. Basically, what I did, was I looked at gold in a timespan of a month, and added up all the tank pickrates, all the support pickrates, and all the DPS pickrates. And here is what I got:
Tanks: 32.31%
Supports: 35.82%
Damage: 31.87%
So if anything, there is more weight on the support side of things than the tank side of things. Tanks and Damage are pretty close to each other in terms of pickrates. Tanks are picked more, but not by too much. I might do this for some of the other ranks too, just to get a general idea of what they’re running. That’s probably something for its own thread, though.
As someone who plays between gold and plat, I doubt they’re playing tank heavy comps. Since I play those games, and I almost never see tank heavy comps except for in an act of desperation.
But we’re really getting nowhere here. We’ll just be going back and forth at this point. So…agree to disagree?
I’ll be sure to check it out when I have time! Reading through it, it sounds pretty neat, so I’ll probably check it out on the Workshop once I can get around to it.
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Yes, I was talking about how Brig enables tank heavy comps, thus Ana.
They are different but unless Blizz is removing patches when the new ones hit, they have cumulative effect, do they not? Or does the fact that they were added at different times means they have difference consequences? Two patches can and often will, add together to achieve the same effect.
Both patches enabled Ana and the problem is that even before the support patch, tank heavy comp was already on the rise, thus the support patch overdid it.
Open Division Season 2 makes it a truth. GOATS - the team, no the composition - won first place only losing a single match before playing 3-3. The Moira GOATS comp did not lose a single round and played against double sniper, 3 DPS and so on, when Mercy had 60HP/s.
The goal post remains the same: Ana is overtuned.
Grav Dragon literally cannot exist anymore and had nothing to do with 60HP/s.
Double sniper couldn’t cut it in GOATS meta, even with 60HP/s, as demonstrated by the GOATS team themselves in Open Divsion S2.
I’ll say it again as well: Support patch over did it. They overnerfed Mercy and overbuffed Ana, making her outshadow Moira and Mercy. Two different patches that have a cumulative effect. Ana was still F tier because she had yet to have received her recent buff and Moira was still being the best in 3-3.
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mercy won’t get buffed because ana players will have a fit if a mercy gets more healing than their “lul git gud” hero
and thats the tea on that
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You edited your post while I was posting, I’m afraid.
Ana shouldn’t compete with Mercy in DPS heavy comps. She is doing exactly that.
I’m saying even when the tank heavy meta is not played, either be OWL or ladder - which is mostly 2-2-2 given the overbuff numbers, Ana still there because Mercy is not enough.
I’ll let the facts speak for themselves. This was run in patch 1.24. I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone what comp the GOATS team ran.
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Mercy threads always boil down to two parties not being able to agree to disagree and that’s all because of being subjective. And too much of that.
You can’t just tell someone that doesn’t like her state right now that she is fine and fun for you and expect them to agree and move on with their life. ( Which most people do and they support it with ridiculous arguments ) Nor does it work the other way.
But back on topic. 60 HPS was not the reason Mercy was OP, she was nerfed because the community complained about her and the devs ran out of things to nerf. Since healing is the easiest thing to do so with, they went with that. They couldn’t increase the cast time any further because it would make Rez useless, nor could they increase the CD. So healing it is. There is no possible way that her healing, which is the only somewhat constant thing in her kit and was buffed previously because it was needed, is the thing that makes her OP.
I for one have accepted that her base healing itself won’t be buffed. Not because she doesn’t need it but because the devs won’t dare to buff it because the community would freak out in a negative way. What I would love to see though is an ability which allows her to temporarily increase it on whatever target she needs to. Burst damage has taken over and she as a main healer should be able to fight against that. Currently, she can’t.
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And it shows a ladder mostly playing around 33% of each role, thus it is not tank heavy.
Must I do the math for you or do you have access to a calculator and overbuff before calling me liar?
I’m done.
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You missed my point again. Bad players do better with Ana, than with Mercy. Because Ana heals them more, so them being bad matters less. Who cares, if you are bad at avoiding damage, when your healer pumps out healing like no tomorrow?
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Because power creep is a thing.
How do you know those buffs wouldn’t break her again? Where is the evidence that she’s dead now?
Buffs should be done when there is a reason for them, so prove there is a reason Mercy needs one.
In what world does a bad Ana with low accuracy outheal a Mercy with 100% accuracy? Heal amount doesn’t matter if you can’t apply it to people.
In a World of Tanks™.
So OWL? I thought the ladder was mostly 5 DPS?
It’s not Ana bad, it’s other players bad. It’s more common to find 1 good player, than 5 good players.
What if Ana is good, but rest of the players are bad? Not a big deal, she got enough healing for that to be irrelevant. What happens, if same with Mercy? It’s lost game.
It is rare, but those triple tank games happen every now and again.