I can prove you wrong with all my matchmaking. I’ve lost 10 games in a row, and not once have I had a clean game where the team that I lost with did not have remnants on the current team. I’ve never once seen an enemy that won from the other team go on my team, and I’ve asked people to test this on comp (just told them to queue at the same time as me). They usually end up on the enemy team or in another game, but the people who lost have more or less been on my team.
Makes sense.
If you drop 25 Sr you’ll be matched with other people that gave dropped, including the losing team mates.
Previous winners will now be 50 Sr above you, so unlikely to be on your team.
Whole matchmaker is very random is all.
Lost 4 games with feeders, Leavers, 5 dps instalocks, enemy smurf, etc.
Then played more and went 10-2 to a career high.
All you can do is focus on your own performance as team mate quality almost utterly random.
1 Like
I agree with the OP 100%.
I play a lot of OW games each season. It gets to the point where you just go along for whatever ride the OW matchmaker thinks you should be on. It seems to be actively trying to help losing players, and hurt winning players, in some effort to smash them together and call it an “even match.”
It makes playing this game completely pointless.
If you force every match to be as even as possible, then how does anyone get to their actual rank? Because if you get hot, the matchmaker will quickly find a way to cancel you out. If you’re playing at a Plat level in Gold, you won’t quickly shoot up to Plat. You’ll just get tougher enemies and worse teammates until the matchmaker thinks the match is even.
To be honest, i like the idea of making matches as even as possible. Most of my matches come down to the wire. Seems more fun that way, rather than stomp stomp spawn camp. What i think is a better idea is…
Give MORE PBSR. It’s the best way to get people to their real ranks, AND still get to force even matches.
Right now, they’re not giving enough PBSR. I lose the same amount as the thrower on my team, who put up ZERO stats.
The system hasn’t adjusted for throwers and smurfs, as both have become very popular over the seasons. At launch, the current system was a better idea. Because most people were on ONE account, and trying. Over time, it changed. So now, you’re stuck in these “Even Matches” and can’t rank up… at any rank. You get canceled out, because there literally are diamond skill players in gold. There literally are bronze skill players in Gold.
We need more PBSR to separate the good from the bad, imo. It’s either that or abandon the idea of “even matches” but i honestly think that’s a good idea. Keep the games tight. Keep that. Give more PBSR.
4 Likes
Pbsr is a great idea for dps.
But how about tanks and supports? Trying to protect idiots that run ahead to be picked. Or support idiots that are all over the map, massively over extended and trying to 1v6 enemy team. Then you get blamed when your 50 hps doesn’t keep them up.
It’s easier to outkill stupid than out heal it or try to shield it.
I’d abandon even matches to be honest. They just breed toxicity as no one trusymts their team mates.
Also creates the ludicrous situation where my games at 2600 are easier than some of my games at 1700 as games far easier being the carried than the carrier.
1 Like
This would imply that the MM uses past match history in its calculations, which the devs have confirmed is not the case.
No it wont. It has enough players to just throw him into a match with both better teammates and players. There is literally nothing to indicate that the MM does this(unless ofcourse you want to show some evidence)
It doesnt balance winrate. It balance the teams, so it will be fair. It has been confirmed that winrate and match history is not used in the calculations
Why not tell us? And how do you know this? We have no reason to believe that you know anything about the matchmaker, since you have already shown that you are either ignorant or lying regarding specific parts of the MM
SR is a shortened version of you MMR. The skill calculations would be worse if MMR was removed.
Yes, because its always the liberals fault.
Get out of your personal beliefs where a game with a ranking system shouldnt use the ranking system to be fair.
You dont know it either.
Let me help you understand. When you play in a plat match, All players are plat which means that they are all equal skill. In masters its the same, but they are just better.
2 Likes
OK what i have learnt today the OP wants to be on the winning side of curb stomps instead of being placed into games where he is placed against players of his or her skill level.
What a freaking self serving attitude. people lose get over it. people win also get over it. if the games you played where down to the wire and you played your best, then treat it as a good game learn something and definitely do not expect the world to owe you anything because it doesn’t
2 Likes
I’m not sure if you mean it doesn’t reach way back into your history or what, but the only data the MM system has on you at all is from past matches. If it’s not using past data what data is it using?
I wasn’t saying it definitely does this I don’t have a lot of time grinding comp. To expand upon my statement, the OBSERVED behavior is that I’ll get 3-4 good games with teams who engage in team fights followed by a few which feel like I’m herding cats. The enemy isn’t better my team simply implodes either at hero select due to people being angry about heroes picked or in the first team fight when a couple people over extend, die and proceed to feed all match long.
The worse games don’t even feel like overwatch. When a matchmaking system produces a high number of low quality matches something is amiss.
1 Like
Match making is fair, however it is anti-fun.
By it correctly identifying the rank you are meant to be you “win the game too soon” and it is no longer fun.
People want to achieve something, but if that achievement is done after 10 placement matches at the start of your Overwatch competitive career, few people want to acknowledge they need to work at it to get much further.
I think that in some ways the success and the accuracy of the match maker is what turns many people away from the game.
I mean that it doesnt use things like which earlier matches you win or lose to find a new match. it only uses the mmr(and the sr to make sure that you dont play with people 1000sr above or below you). nothing more.
NBA is the top tier of competitive basketball, so yes it does work like that, as do most competitive sports, even chess.
2 Likes
You are right in all points. MMR tries to create Fair matches at the cost of putting bad with good ones. Sometimes ppl deceive it, sometimes you cant play your Main character. And i have accounts for every rank as i cant play all heroes at the same level and let me tell you this all games are a gamble from bronze to GM. which are not getting quality games. You sometimes in gold get a bronze, who should be bronze, but is gold, and worst is Diamond any soft thrower can create a 5vs6 situation over there you feel too much what is like to have a boosted or thrower. You go to plat and the same, and all ranks.
I have said it before; the only way to create good games and fair games is pairing gold medals with gold medals and bronze medals with bronze medals. That way you more or less can control if you going up or down. But you perform out of your Mind in plat and next game you get a smurf in order to create a fair game, but that is not all your next teammates will be low gold as the match needs to be fair. So if you get 50 kills by training and learning, you will face smurf all the way up, as the MMR wants to create fair matches and in conclusion you are hard stuck.
What worked for me is to go characters like lucio, zarya and maybe Dva and act like baby sister so i deceive the system and continue going up.
1 Like
This was a great post and could not be more true. Ignore all the haters. There are people who would defend Blizzard’s system no matter what. You know those people who sleep out on filthy sidewalks in the cold for days waiting for Apple products? That sort of blind loyalty isn’t reserved for Apple fanboys. You see it here all the time. “The systems is perfect. Everything is your fault. The matchmaker is the fairest and most balanced thing on the planet. It as if god himself made it!”
I mean, it’s beyond silly. I literally think that a lot of people just do this stuff as a form of passive aggression.
But the fact is, Blizzard has every incentive to create the system you accurately described. It improves the experience for people who won’t work to improve and probably doesn’t scare away the diehards, because they’re competitive and dedicated by nature. It’s a perfect way to implement grind into this game, indeed it is the only way, and we know that developers love them some grind.
It’s clear that what he wrote went completely over your head.
Holy necro Batman!!!
I give this thread a few days at best before it gets closed for being such an egregious necro.
1 Like
Equal opponents should be found around his skill lvl and when reaches that rating is when he should play with them and against them. Everyone that has achieved X SR should be equal. Not with the current system were games have vastly different SR on players to begin with second to players having their own hidden MMR values to decide their “true” skill. And it’s obviously working very well if you want to make better players carry bad players. Again matching people 300-400 Sr difference now days is the biggest reveal of this system. As it can no longer find worse enough players to handicap your games with it has to look for lower SR players to find people with the right MMR value to even make a game.
Problem with hidden MMR thou beyond that no one actually sees their actual rank is de facto how they use only to make games but not effect the SR gain. Naturally if I have higher MMR I should be placed in a higher MMR game no? And gain more SR if I win that game and subsequently lose less SR if I lose because my SR is trailing my MMR. If you ever played WoW arena you would understand this. They prolly changed that as well now dunno. But if you had 1500 rating before but played at 2k MMR you would get 100 rating per win and lose 10.
That is how MMR is used in a rating system. To sufficiently push people that are better than their SR up the ladder. Not some BS were you give a high MMR player objectively harder games for the same SR.
They talk about keeping your SR and MMR the same but at the same time as I said you being higher MMR than SR does not reward you more for a win why? You should be matched with better players no? Nope instead you are given worse players to make you lose so your MMR and Sr can drop together, were your MMR obviously drops faster than SR to again create another win streak coz the MMR now undervalues you and puts you as the rock to sink others but now you have a good team and a stomp ensures due to how you are so much better than the average. MM failing to make anything like a 50-50 due to its own stupidity.
1 Like
From what i can understand the original poster wants total power, domination because they ‘earned it’. Also wants to basically punish low skill players because they are ‘lazy’.
Very simplistic naive idea on ‘Its all about hard work for success’. Also no consideration for the fun of others & overall sustainability of the game.
The audacity to ask for a unfair system because its ‘not fun when i am not having 100% winrate’. Just amazing.
3 Likes
literally the best post on the thread LOL
2 Likes
Great post S23, thank you for keeping this discussion going for so long. Let me also plug my thread on the subject of “fair” matchmaking (handicapping) which you have contributed to:
Necro but…isn’t this exactly what his point was but applied across the entire spectrum since it’s all 50/50 lbvs
No.
OP’s point was that he puts in “hard work”, so he deserves to win the majority of his games, even if it meant stomping on low level players.
What I meant is that taking out the MMR system means that middle players literally at the mercy of your teammates. You could go full tryhard or literally afk and the outcome could be the same. It would only exaggerate currently existing issues while fixing nothing.
In other words, OP feels he’s good enough to be the deciding factor, and should be constantly rewarded as such. Meanwhile, everyone else should just sit back and either watch or be his punching bags for his amusement.
And while I’m here since I ignored it last time:
It does.
MMR does factor into SR gains and losses, particularly for lower ranked games where PBSR is in play. But because MMR is much more volatile, it’s not such an overwhelming factor that you can end up swinging all over the place due to one lucky or unlucky game.
1 Like