Why is AOE healing a problem now?

General Discussion
55

No, she’s been meta a few times, mostly post 2/2/2 but also in the quad tank comps that evolved into goats, and Moira is still better in goats vs non goats, as the point of diminishing returns is higher.

The problem isn’t Moira as much as it is at least one of Moira, Bap, or Brig being a problem at any given time, going all the way back to Brig’s release, i.e. a very long time. This is the real reason why modern overwatch sucks and why everyone screams powercreep and points fingers at other roles.

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56

Teamfight time wasn’t lower, team fights were slower, more methodically that’s the key difference what many people miss.
Today it’s either nothing dies or anything dies in an instant.

In OG time you could get an advantage by just keeping up the pressure, sustain wasn’t strong enough so you bled out over time.

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57

Slambulance was only used a few times. It was never “meta”.

As far as post-2/2/2, she was only meta during double barrier. She’s been somewhat of a decent situational pick besides that, but not “meta”.

Not really, though. If you want to point at Moira’s role in Slambulance, remember that Slambulance was created specifically to counter Widowmaker, but it never caught on because there was not enough damage to make the added sustain worth it. Brigitte was able to make it work because she was good enough at damage, peel and healing to make subbing out a DPS worth it.

What period of time was this, exactly? Pre-Moira/Brig/Bap, there were only three Metas:

  • Early Pharmercy
  • Triple Tank
  • Dive

And all three of those metas were based around heavy burst damage and bursting down a single pick to open up the fight.

What period of “slower, methodical” play are you talking about?

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58

Almost like anything not related to skill is bad in FPS game, surprise. Not to mention support and tanks are what got powercreeped since release with several 100%.

59

you do not inherently understand shooters, or game design if you cant see why healing being too good is a bad thing

if things dont die the game doesnt move forward.

thats why healing has always been an issue in OW.

60

AoE healing is the new excuse they came up with to keep demanding more Brig nerfs.

After aoe is nerfed on Brig, they’re gonna complain that multi-target hitting is the real source of overpoweredness and nerf that on her,

then they’ll complain that no-aim healing is overpowered, and will remove repair kit

then they’ll complain that support shouldn’t have more than 200hp and that’s OP, and nerf her health

then they’ll say her shield now has more HP than her healthpool, and revert the +50armor

then they’ll say Brig’s InSaNe VaLuE actually comes from her two CCs, and will remove bash alltogether

then they’ll say booping is too oppressive in fights and remove boop from whip

then they’ll say Rally is the actual strong part of her kit and increase it’s cost so it goes from 2nd most expensive ult in game to 1st most expensive (beating Lucio)

then they’ll say she’s still got insane value due to being able to do multiple things at once during a fight (attacking+inspire healing) so inspire will now only be able to activate 2 sec after not attacking

then they’ll say her winrate and pickrate aren’t 0% therefore she needs shield size reduced 30% and melee’s reduced from 35 per hit to 30

then they’ll go “remember how OP launch Brig was” for the 94 quadrillionth time and rile everyone up and she will get whip removed

then they’ll get bored and just start complaining for no reason and get her name nerfed to literally just the letter “B”

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61

???

So let me get this straight. More solutions to the same problem… is not more solutions?

And in your opinion… having less options for solutions, like tanks and supports do, gives more impact on the overall game?

I want you to really sit and think about that logical reasoning before you reply back to me, alright?

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62

Before Moira was recognized as a strong pick.

Don’t ask which metas we had, but it was very different how the game was played.
I play Ana since season 2

63

It’s been a problem for a while, not just now.

Stacking AOE heals just makes things harder to kill.

64

It completely overtook EU contenders during the height of dive. People speculate that it could have overtaken dive without Brig.

We’re still in a double barrier meta, and have been in and out of it for quite some time now. Moira was used for quite a bit of it.

It wasn’t. It started because rushing with a bunch of tanks throws people off guard if they weren’t expecting it and people realized that it was a legitimately good comp.

I’m actually not too sure of this. It was on the rise until Brig landed.

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65

It’s worth noting slambulance was a direct response to Jakerat hype.

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66

I’m not sure it was a direct response as opposed to something that just occured independently around the same time; Moira was released around then.

We probably would have seen more junk+triple tank if the Jakerat was really the cause.

67

weird you call lucio a “strong” healer and use the term “must pick” despite him being trash tier on ladder right now (only being somewhat viable because of genji)

lucio is awful right now because, surprise surprise, he struggles to compete with stronger healers who also have AoE and brig is who just a better version. AND also because of all the spam damage comps he is completely useless versus except for just those 4 seconds he uses ult (an ultimate he will barely farm)

68

True, but Moira was still vastly less popular than Mercy in the pro scene. Mercy had just received her first set of nerfs which gave moira a chance to breathe temporarily. It didn’t last long though, since slambulance was used to push into Jakerat, and Jakerat was being boosted by Mercy.

That’s when widow started popping her head into the meta for the first time as well, funny enough.

69

That’s because seeing in potential how high healing can go, and can be somewhat easily achieved, i’d be complaining too.

70

I guess I should specify that due to the general nature of the damage role being the damage role, that by default makes each character less impactful. That’s doubled up on by there being multiple characters in the role that fulfill the same job.

All supports heal and all damage characters are damage focused, with Mei and Sombra being the exception. Support characters and tank characters also do damage, but provide very powerful alternative abilities on top of that.

The majority of the damage characters only focus on damage, and while damage wins games, supports and tanks make that significantly harder to do which means which ones are strong and which ones you pick have more impact than the damage role.

71

Oh give me a break. Damage role is not “exclusive” to damage. You’ve got Mei who’s practically an off tank in her own right. You’ve got Sombra who’s basically a Utility support. You’ve got something like Phara that can only really be countered by the dps role. A better phara in Echo. You’ve got Doomfist that can really only be countered by the dps role. Sym who’s practically a support in her own right. It takes an entire team working together, or a better dps to keep hero’s like widow and hanzo in check.

DPS has the most diverse play styles in this game, hands down. They create the problems, and supports and tanks enable those dps or have to work together to the best of their abilities to shut them down.

Like, the list of damage hero’s that can heal themselves or have abilties/passives that give them temporary hp/armor surpasses the need for most support healing in this game.

To say that tanks and supports are “more impactful” is completely blind to why the meta’s are played in the first place.

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72

Pharah and Doom definitely are not only countered by dps, and I specifically stated Mei and Sombra as exceptions.

Abilities that only effect oneself are not nearly as impactful as abilities that effect you and your team. Brig’s shield is not nearly as important an ability to watch out for as Rein’s shield despite the fact they have the same exact function.

I think it is you who are blind. Goats? D.va? Double barrier? Beyblade? Triple tank?

The only dps centric metas have been grav dragon and double sniper.

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73

Moira has only been recognized as a strong pick at either lower ranks or in Double Barrier meta.

In all other cases, she’s been situational.

Ah, Contenders. That’s the one area where I don’t have any data to check.

Looking over the official OWC Youtube channel’s archives, I can say that it seems to have been played pretty consistently alongside Dive. Meh. I’ll take your word for it, but in the end, it’s speculation in hindsight.

We are, but Moira is no longer the two meta picks in it, nor has she been for some time. According to OWL’s stat lab, the only healer used less than her is Mercy.

It was. It was specifically created to be run on maps like Horizon, King’s Row and Junkertown to neutralize Widowmaker’s ability to headshot targets.

No it wasn’t. At all. Mercy/Zen was a dominant lock at least in OWL.

OWC may have been a different story, but I think Kaz has already answered that.

74

Who counters them in the support or tank slots? I’ll wait.

And no, just trying to live through them with moira’s fade is not a counter.

Goats, caused by double sniper.

D.va, literally was the only option to keep most ults in check. Has been nerfed into the ground btw.

Double barrier, a response to the insane amount of burst damage that’s been added to the game. Can’t do anything to stop Doomfist and now Genji who’s better than Doomfist.

Beyblade was Reaper, and 3 tanks trying to survive that Reaper.

Triple tank was trying to survive through Soldier after Reaper and speed on nano were nerfed. And soldier, who is now more powerful in current patch than he was back then, is considered f tier to other dps who drastically out perform him.

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