???
So let me get this straight. More solutions to the same problem… is not more solutions?
And in your opinion… having less options for solutions, like tanks and supports do, gives more impact on the overall game?
I want you to really sit and think about that logical reasoning before you reply back to me, alright?
Before Moira was recognized as a strong pick.
Don’t ask which metas we had, but it was very different how the game was played.
I play Ana since season 2
It’s been a problem for a while, not just now.
Stacking AOE heals just makes things harder to kill.
It completely overtook EU contenders during the height of dive. People speculate that it could have overtaken dive without Brig.
We’re still in a double barrier meta, and have been in and out of it for quite some time now. Moira was used for quite a bit of it.
It wasn’t. It started because rushing with a bunch of tanks throws people off guard if they weren’t expecting it and people realized that it was a legitimately good comp.
I’m actually not too sure of this. It was on the rise until Brig landed.
It’s worth noting slambulance was a direct response to Jakerat hype.
I’m not sure it was a direct response as opposed to something that just occured independently around the same time; Moira was released around then.
We probably would have seen more junk+triple tank if the Jakerat was really the cause.
weird you call lucio a “strong” healer and use the term “must pick” despite him being trash tier on ladder right now (only being somewhat viable because of genji)
lucio is awful right now because, surprise surprise, he struggles to compete with stronger healers who also have AoE and brig is who just a better version. AND also because of all the spam damage comps he is completely useless versus except for just those 4 seconds he uses ult (an ultimate he will barely farm)
True, but Moira was still vastly less popular than Mercy in the pro scene. Mercy had just received her first set of nerfs which gave moira a chance to breathe temporarily. It didn’t last long though, since slambulance was used to push into Jakerat, and Jakerat was being boosted by Mercy.
That’s when widow started popping her head into the meta for the first time as well, funny enough.
That’s because seeing in potential how high healing can go, and can be somewhat easily achieved, i’d be complaining too.
I guess I should specify that due to the general nature of the damage role being the damage role, that by default makes each character less impactful. That’s doubled up on by there being multiple characters in the role that fulfill the same job.
All supports heal and all damage characters are damage focused, with Mei and Sombra being the exception. Support characters and tank characters also do damage, but provide very powerful alternative abilities on top of that.
The majority of the damage characters only focus on damage, and while damage wins games, supports and tanks make that significantly harder to do which means which ones are strong and which ones you pick have more impact than the damage role.
Oh give me a break. Damage role is not “exclusive” to damage. You’ve got Mei who’s practically an off tank in her own right. You’ve got Sombra who’s basically a Utility support. You’ve got something like Phara that can only really be countered by the dps role. A better phara in Echo. You’ve got Doomfist that can really only be countered by the dps role. Sym who’s practically a support in her own right. It takes an entire team working together, or a better dps to keep hero’s like widow and hanzo in check.
DPS has the most diverse play styles in this game, hands down. They create the problems, and supports and tanks enable those dps or have to work together to the best of their abilities to shut them down.
Like, the list of damage hero’s that can heal themselves or have abilties/passives that give them temporary hp/armor surpasses the need for most support healing in this game.
To say that tanks and supports are “more impactful” is completely blind to why the meta’s are played in the first place.
Pharah and Doom definitely are not only countered by dps, and I specifically stated Mei and Sombra as exceptions.
Abilities that only effect oneself are not nearly as impactful as abilities that effect you and your team. Brig’s shield is not nearly as important an ability to watch out for as Rein’s shield despite the fact they have the same exact function.
I think it is you who are blind. Goats? D.va? Double barrier? Beyblade? Triple tank?
The only dps centric metas have been grav dragon and double sniper.
Moira has only been recognized as a strong pick at either lower ranks or in Double Barrier meta.
In all other cases, she’s been situational.
Ah, Contenders. That’s the one area where I don’t have any data to check.
Looking over the official OWC Youtube channel’s archives, I can say that it seems to have been played pretty consistently alongside Dive. Meh. I’ll take your word for it, but in the end, it’s speculation in hindsight.
We are, but Moira is no longer the two meta picks in it, nor has she been for some time. According to OWL’s stat lab, the only healer used less than her is Mercy.
It was. It was specifically created to be run on maps like Horizon, King’s Row and Junkertown to neutralize Widowmaker’s ability to headshot targets.
No it wasn’t. At all. Mercy/Zen was a dominant lock at least in OWL.
OWC may have been a different story, but I think Kaz has already answered that.
Who counters them in the support or tank slots? I’ll wait.
And no, just trying to live through them with moira’s fade is not a counter.
Goats, caused by double sniper.
D.va, literally was the only option to keep most ults in check. Has been nerfed into the ground btw.
Double barrier, a response to the insane amount of burst damage that’s been added to the game. Can’t do anything to stop Doomfist and now Genji who’s better than Doomfist.
Beyblade was Reaper, and 3 tanks trying to survive that Reaper.
Triple tank was trying to survive through Soldier after Reaper and speed on nano were nerfed. And soldier, who is now more powerful in current patch than he was back then, is considered f tier to other dps who drastically out perform him.
Because she was expressly nerfed to stop that. That’s kinda the problem- one of Bap, Brig, or Moira is usually problem at any given point in time, so it feels like it’s been a problem forever.
Nah, it was initially used on those maps to get a ton of early ground before ults are up and people switched on respawn. It saw the most use on 1st point attack for that reason.
Mercy/Zen was the dominant pick but as time rolled on and nerfs sank in, you saw some teams use it with a decent bit of consistency depending on the map pool.
Then why did you bring it up? This is the reason I used past tense when referring to the Double Barrier meta that Moira was part of.
No, it saw the most use on the first points of those maps because those maps had the most open ground for snipers to dominate.
As I said, I don’t have Contenders numbers with me, so I’ll take your word that some people speculate that this was the case.
Because you brought up Moira when I was talking about those 3 as a group in the first post I made.
We would have seen more slambulance on defense and more comps rushing space side low ground on Horizon if that were the primary reason.
For this I’m explicitly talking about OWL. Tendies sees regional differences and some outright had slam as the default comp, with the big one being EU.
Zen, Ana, D.va, and Baptiste can all deal with a Pharah, and Roadhog, Brigitte, Ana with a sleep, and Orisa can all deal with Doomfist.
Metas are not just reactionary comps, otherwise multiple comps would be meta. The meta is the best comp available, and the supports and tanks are typically the backbone of that.
Goats was the best comp for a year and caused a fundamental shift in the game as a whole, and that comp didn’t even include dps.
D.va was straight up broken for a long while.
Double barrier wasn’t a response to anything, that meta started on Sigma’s release day.
Beyblade was just the popular option. Reinhardt and Genji were both options instead of Reaper, Ana was clearly the problem.
Ana was additionally the backbone of the meta immediately after that too with triple tank.
The dps don’t drive the meta 90% of the time, and the most dominant meta of all didn’t even include them.
Until May/ June, he was one of the most used supports from Bronze to GM
Brig was being used in OWL ever since Echo launched in April
Even today, from Bronze to Diamond (You know where probably 97% of the playerbase actually is) Lucio is still top pick
Yeah, because I said Moira didn’t really fit the same classification except in (older) Double Barrier. You’re the one who brought the current Double Barrier.
Again, I’ll take
Then yeah, no. Slambulance was rarely used in OWL.