This is so true. Good for you, you have teammates that know how to avoid taking massive damage so her small heals are enough for you. The rest of us needed that 60 hps. I need it in plat because my tanks don’t tank, they’re dps players that are forced to tank because others instalocked dps first and the ones that did instalock have tunnel vision. I need to heal them up faster than the 10-12 seconds it takes to heal a single tank outside of combat so we can fit in more team fights in the round and win. I am legit constantly asked to switch to moira lately and bunker comp bastions don’t even want me to damage boost them, they ask me to baptiste so I can protect them with the field instead.
9 Likes
Except a lot of those bad behaviours could have been adjusted by tweaking the ultimate and a lot of those “bad behaviours” were not even remotely that bad and were things that other ultimates utilized, eg. hiding before usage.
Mass Rez was satisfying because you put in effort to think ahead and try and control the outcome once you predicted your required position to be ready to be safe and maximise your value. The reward felt like your one independent moment that actually felt like it had value and swing potential. It felt like how it feels to play Ana all game or any other support who gets to have independent value. Being a support requires independence, especially at low ranks because it is your job to keep people alive even when they are not working as one smooth unit like they would at higher ranks. Your job is keeping a situation under control when everything should be out of it. That is Mercy’s problem, she has nothing that can keep a situation under her control anymore whether it be a massive ult for a saving situation, strong utility that swings the fight or a tempo ult that really helps in the midfight. She has nothing, all of what she has requires you to be in a just winning fight to turn it into a strong success. That is not impactful.
I want Mercy to have something that allows her independent control over something. So much of her is team reliant and at lower ranks people take too much careless damage and are always out of a good position that they will often take damage that Mercy can not heal and they have no idea about team work or communication but it is also why lower ranked Mercy’s can get 30-60% team damage healed with like 16-20K heal numbers and still also come out with like 6-9 resurrects.
Lower ranks are careless and therefore all of your supports need to have abilities that puts control in their hands.
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Hiding for ults still exists in the game.
Hiding for rez still exists in the game.
Nothing has changed, besides the fact people are hypocrites about hiding.
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Because he’s a good example of how to play conservatively, which I think is the preferred mode of how Cleopatra plays. When I saw Ark playing on OWL Twitch Command Center (when it was on limited free offer), he GA positions really easily because his Pharah positions perfectly – in one whole round, he didn’t crouch-GA-jump simply because precise easy play from his team mates made it easier for him to play precisely and easily.
In the messy world of low tier QP and CP, crouch-GA-jump is essential in many situations because gameplay is messy and imprecise.
“GIT GUD” is not the solution for many in low tiers dissatisfied with Mercy.
The fundamental problem with Mercy is that she is so mobile and fluid that there is a flow to her, but e-rez stops her flow. This is not a balance issue, it is a game design issue.
And the negativity you find among other players who don’t like her current iteration has most to do with game design – specifically the part about player/hero satisfaction, NOT player/hero performance.
I used to play with OWL World Cup team members, but that was a long time ago – I spend most of my time playing with kids these days. And they always, always died when doing rez. So most times even though this is my support account I just go Rein and they play Brig – it’s easier and satisfying for them, just as satisfying as playing S76 and running around shooting stuff (or McRee so that we can “bash and bang”).
Do you play with kids? Are you even remotely interested in making OW fun for kids, and at all tiers?
6 Likes
Rezzes that matter are always high risk.
Often I am not making rezzes unless they are safe, but those rezzes have no impact.
So what choices do I have?
Die for meaningful rez that has the potential of then becoming unmeaningful because I died?
Rez the safe rez to keep up player numbers only to watch that bad player die again?
E Rez is crappy, moreso for lower tiers because it forces so much team work to actually get meaningful plays from it and you know what low ranks don’t have, team work, let alone trying to even communicate.
E Rez only works at high ranks. Much like the healing nerf.
Mercy has nothing that promote an independent impact, one thing would be enough to provide skill expression and some level of personal influence in a game at lower ranks.
5 Likes
Quite on the contrary…the specific behavior i speak of here no longer exists because - thankfully - mass rez was removed from the game
Nope.
20 characters.
Factually, mass rez was removed from the game
I am not a high ranking player and i successfully (doctor and patient both alive at the end) rez in almost every game i play as Mercy, usually multiple times
I watch other lower tier matches and they are able to do the same, even in midfight
So?
20 more characters.
Then you are getting rezzes that don’t actually matter or change much of the fight.
The ones that mean something only happens in high rank games because they work with their Mercy.
4 Likes
The successful rez attempts i make always bolster my teams chance of victory, and the ones i see in other lower tier games appear to do so as well
So? As usual, no details, no substance, no context. So, it’s “no u” for you.
2 Likes
“appear to”
The issue is that the rez you likely took a chance on was a safe one which at low ranks is likely one on a person that was already dying a bunch and not that impactful to the fight, which means your desire to keep numbers together ends up still not being that impactful because the follow up is expecting that one team mate to make the most of that time wasted not healing.
You cannot rely on your team mates in low ranks the way higher ranked players can and therefore your impact is significantly lower and near nothing compared to other supports.
The rezzes that mean something, are more dangerous and likely will not be something you for in low ranks if you intend to live, because your team will follow through with you.
Mercy has no independently impactful abilities.
Something that comes from her and doesn’t always need something from someone else to coordinate with perfectly.
That was the exciting thing about Mass Rez, you had this time to prepare for this big ability that while it relied on your team mates, you didn’t need to coordinate it with them, you coordinated based on how prepared you were for an enemy attack. It made MERCY feel impactful, not MERCY only enabling her team 100% of the time and some mobility.
Ana relies on her team for safety if she can’t deal with it solo. She has a grenade and a sleep dart which ARE HUGE PLAYS THAT SHE CAN MAKE ALL GAME and they all rely on her self, they don’t necessarily need to be coordinated with her team to be successful, she needs to use on her team to be successful.
That’s the difference, Mercy needs her team to be good in order to do things well.
Ana needs only herself to do something and it feels like it does more to change the pace of a fight rather than only relying and bolstering the team.
7 Likes
My rezzes were of many varieties…some safe, some quite risky
All were quite valuable towards my teams results in the teamfghts that followed, and some led directly to victories
Said more simply, my rezzes were impactful
I really like how you’ve approached things in the sense that in a coordinated setting you still have the power of your “turbocharger” and such, and how that each rez basically detracts from the duration of it. I think back to how Geoff said they wanted Mercy to remain simple in a sense, when it came to resource based rez. So that makes me hesitant to it’s application.
I think in a lot of ways what you have outlined is very simiilar to what was the initial Valk 1.0 rework, where you could manipulate the rez CD and such and manage to pull off say 4 rezzes within a 20s window. I like how your approach does a lot to remedy the flaws that were in that initial version. I do think it could be difficult to make it operate in a way in lower tiers that doesn’t render it oppressive. That’s to say that due to the lack of constraints and such that are found in organiozed play, such an ult could be quite powerful.
The fact that you have each rez remove a second of duration on the ult does address this imo. As not only do you lose the 1 second of rez, you also have to take into account travel time from one rez target to another.
This version that you’ve put forward adheres to the 1:1 rez mechanic, which is imho very important. I am not a proponent of 1 button press resulting from anything from 1 - 5 people being rezzed. Furthermore, you have address what made the initial Valk rework OP in a pretty good way.
That said, I could see there being a lot of balancing implications that can’t be fully understood until such an ult is in place. That will probably be enough to discourage devs for instance from implementing it.
However, what you outlined, with proper adjustments, is probably the best compromise I’ve come across on this forum. In coordinated settings where you’ll rarely get more than 1 rez off, you can still take advantage of the other elements of the ult. In uncoordinated settings, you can take advantage of the multiple rezzes to make a large play. It’s, imo, an elegant solution.
Very well done, my friend. And VERY thoughtful. I hope I have summed up my opinions on it well, please, feel free to ask for my thoughts on anything I might have missed or glanced over. It’s hard to sort of take in everything you said and consider all the potential implications as it’s far reaching. It’s hard to guess what kind of effect such a rework would have.
1 Like
Usually problem isn’t to get away with it alive, but for patient to not die in next 5 seconds. As you can escape relatively easy, but they can not.
7 Likes
Thank you so much, my friend! I’ve been trying to come up with a flexible solution to “The Mercy Problem” for a long time now, and your approval in particular means a lot to me. (I may or may not have been actively seeking it for a while now, hehe)
It’s still something I’m still very hesitant about, but I figured that I should at least give it a second try when coupled with proper power limiters (kind of like the argument for multirez, haha!).
I would still like to keep the 1:1-5 mechanic on the table as a “nerf option” if the current model turns out to be too oppressive. Being able to rez 1:1 carries some potential risks for the mid-ranks and low-ranks that I am very concerned about.
Being able to do things dive into the enemy’s backline, rez your Genji with ult, and then return to the front lines to rez your second healer is a very flexible way to use the ult, but my mid-rank experience with Valk 1.0 saw a lot of Mercies using that flexibility as an excuse to get sloppy… and even worse, the phenomenon of having a teammate with the ability to “excuse poor positioning” caused a lot of tank/dps players to stagnate or even regress in their positioning skills. They didn’t see the need to get better, because “Mercy can just rez them.”
That was one of my biggest complaints about Valkyrie 1.0: Mercy went from being very unforgiving of teammates having bad positioning…
“if you die in a stupid spot, rezzing you will be a waste of my ult since I only have one shot to use it”
To actively enabling it.
“If you die in a stupid spot, that’s okay since I can rez you and still have a bunch of rezzes left over”
Poor behavior - such as players who won’t play as a team - was actively enforced by Valkyrie 1.0, since dying for their mistake was no longer a punishment they had to learn from. They could call upon Moth Mercy with her many single rezzes to bail them out, and this crutch caused a lot of players to pick up some very, very bad habits.
I’m hoping that the new mechanic of “rez for a price” will be enough to deter such behavior. But if those bad habits resurface again in the playerbase, I would strongly advocate for rez portion of Emergency Treatment to once again work as a 1:1-5 mechanic that activates at the beginning of the ult, in order to bring such poor behavior under control. Having only one shot at rezzing would mean that you can’t afford to waste it on someone who died because they made a foolish mistake (e.g. someone who shouldn’t be flanking trying to flank anyways and getting themselves killed, which is common in low elos). There would still be the reactive counterplay of “killing Mercy prevents the rez from completing”, on top of the ult having a cast time that can be interrupted.
Thank you for giving me the chance to explain it further 
I have a general idea of what the far reaching-consequences of this rework might be… in fact, it’s something I’ve been working towards from the outset. One of my priorities for a Mercy rework is to bring her into a spot that acts as a gamesense skillcheck in the low/midranks. Another is for her to be known as having one of the highest skill ceilings in the game through cerebral skills (gamesense, positioning, strategy, etc.)
This one’s kind of in fantasy territory, but: Mercy mains would become known as being the best at shotcalling because of that high cerebral skill ceiling, maybe even have some memes about “big brain Mercy mains” having psychic supermom powers.
Okay yeah that last part is pretty goofy… but I’d be lying if I denied wanting it to happen 
Right now we have aim skillchecks and positioning skillchecks, where you have to gitgud at the skills in order to counter the hero, but from what I can tell we’re pretty spare on gamesense skillchecks. Oh, and to be clear on how I define it, “skillcheck” is a hero ensures that you don’t rise in rank until you learned the requisite skills to counter them first.
Setting aside its many issues, I view the removal of multirez as the loss of the game’s biggest mid-elos gamesense skillcheck. The fear of Mercy flying in with a multirez pushed players to learn ult economy, target priority, and gamesense when nothing else could. After the Valkyrie rework, I’ve noticed an increase in players reaching high ranks on mechanical skills alone, when pre-rework Mercy and her multirez would have kept them in the mid ranks until they learned enough gamesense to counter it.
I think that being able to climb in Overwatch on one or two skills alone isn’t right, and I think that it’s a contributor to toxicity: when someone gets all the way to the highest ranks in the game without a well-rounded skillset, it heavily skews their perception of the game and makes it harder to see eye-to-eye with players who climbed using different skills.
Maybe this is a bit too idealistic, but I really like the idea of Mercy being among the “gatekeeper characters” to high elos. A lot of players only learned mechanical skills because it was the only way to counter Pharah, and others only learned positioning because it was the only way to counter Bastion. I would like players to be pushed harder to learn gamesense, and I want Mercy to be the one who pushes them to do it.
A non-sequiter: I realized a bit ago that if I added flight to Emergency Treatment, it would probably count as a Valkyrie rework. I thought that this is hilarious, seeing how vocal I’ve been about wanting Valkyrie to be deleted 
2 Likes
Yeah, I am a kid. I bought OW when I was 15. My sister plays and she’s 13. All my friends on here are kids. Doesn’t change the fact that this is a competitive FPS hero-based shooter that needs to be balanced around the higher tiers and not 10 year olds.
I’m so done arguing with the Mercy mains in this thread. You guys are literal mob-mentality hive mind with emotionally and logically flawed arguments.
I have no reason to continue arguing with any of you. As I already said:
I win. You lose.
I love Valkyrie and E rez, I want them to stay. The devs love valkyrie and E rez and intend for them to stay.
I am very very happy and content with the state of Mercy, and the Devs are going to keep her this way becasuse they are happy and content with her too.
You guys have been whining and crying on the forums for the last 2 years asking for Mass Rez back or complaining about the rework. Well guess what, it happened, get over it. It’s been 2 years, you guys have already lost. You can be entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to continue mindlessly ranting on here for the next 2 years too, but it doesn’t change the facts: Mass Rez is gone, permanently. Valkyrie is here, E rez is here. 
Helden sterben nicht
1 Like
It’s not just about mass rez – if you look at how I laid out my narrative, I think Valk rework as it was introduced is a big buff that had to be nerfed successively. Successive nerfs later, Mercy’s healing numbers are nerfed simply because it is darn hard to balance around e-rez – an ability which is now MOSTLY for high tier play, and is darn difficult to find value for at low ELOs (silver to plat).
You have to be at super low ELOs (low bronze) in order for players to be clueless enough to make it viable to rez right in front of their faces.
See, that’s the thing – I play at all ELOs, my multiple accounts are from bronze to high diamond ( though to be honest, I haven’t played diamond-low masters in years, because I honestly don’t care to try so hard anymore).
I suspect that I agree with you on one respect (I saw your post roasting XQC), and that’s it’s not so easy to play Mercy these days. It’s easier to find value throwing health packs as Brig or Ana doing grenades on the ground to burst heal main tanks (I tell a 9 year old to just follow an ally Rein and shoot him at the butt all the time – that really cracks them up).
You are entitled to your opinion about what constitutes high tier play – all I’m saying is that you are really out of touch with the really low tiers: what constitutes fun and balanced for them.
The very least Blizzard can do is to reverse the Mercy healing nerf on her regular kit from 50 HPS to 60 HPS – at higher tiers, Valk is not as high priority in terms of ults as compared to, say, a Lucio or a Zen ult.
1 Like