Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State

General Discussion
11387

I am not enjoying beautiful, yet useless, things.

Nothing horrible, just me discarding lost causes. And to be fair, I care about keeping important players alive more, than keeping whole team alive, and Valkyrie fails at it.

When counterplay is simply shooting, since 60 hps even back there weren’t very good, it’s just pathetic.

Valkyrie lacks in quality: it doesn’t turn your average teammates into good or great, unlike even Nano. As it lacks power per teammate - even Coalescence grants each teammate 140 hps.

So far best use of Valkyrie was only in combo with Transcendence. Actually keeps teammates alive, and allows them to make full use of AoE damage boost.

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11388

How does a 20% increase in HPS, as well as an increase in beam range, while also being able to multiheal nearby teammates while STILL pocketing the “important player” fail at keeping important people alive?

Yeah because 60 HPS for 5 teammates that goes through shields, is constant, and requires no reload for 15 seconds is bad healing. For sure for sure, mhm.

Valk is both beautiful and useful which is why I love it so much, and the Devs do too :smiley:

I’ll keep flying in the sky, carrying teamfights with Valk because I use it correctly, and winning my games! Thank ya very much :angel:

1 Like
11389

60 hps were failing at it, even when Mercy had them all the time. You can increase Zenyatta’s healing by 50%, but that would be only 45 hps.

By current standards, it is bad healing. Need 100+, at least, for shorter time. So, again, have to combine it with Transcendence from second healer, for it to work - otherwise teammates just die quick deaths in first 5 seconds.

Having such ult for healer, that works best with spread out teams, sounds like bad design choice. If you make teammates group up, you better be able to save them from unavoidable downsides of grouping up.

7 Likes
11390

Hm, no. That’s not my experience in my games. My valks are almost always good and get great value because I use them correctly and when I know I need to use it to win the fight/swing it in my team’s favor. Maybe try using your ult more effectively? Relying on Zen trans isn’t a good habit to get into I’m afraid :grimacing:.

If you are valking and your teammates die in the first 5 seconds, it’s probabaly because

a) The enemy team poured out several ults. Which is good for you, they just blew ults to counter your valk, which charges insanely fast and you’ll have again before they get their ults back.
b) They one shot everyone, which happens through Trans and Coalesence too and has nothing to do with Valk
c) They focus fired all of your teammates 1 by 1 over the course of 5 seconds, which I somehow find hard to believe, but if they do then they definately deserve to win that teamfight :slight_smile: Overwatch is a game about coordination and teamplay, and luckily Valk has counterplay which includes focus fire.

Hm, no, not really. Making a healer into a Super Support Godess for 15 seconds, with extremely enchanced ways of supporting her team, is not a bad design choice.

She gains extended beam and GA range to reach people whereever they are in need across the map. That’s not “bad design for a healer”, that’s perfect design for a healer; she’s able to support anyone, anywhere, antime in Valk. And that’s what Mercy is supposed to be, an uber mobile combat medic flying across the battlefield providing support to anyone who needs it, dashing around between teammates and surveying for someone in need of assistance. Valk fits that perfectly :heart_eyes:

Also, she gains chain beams to support the team as a whole rather than one person at a time. She gains increased healing output to better support them, and she also becomes extremely mobile and hard to kill, allowing her to continue supporting her team no matter what the enemy is throwing at her. Sounds like an amazing ult for a main healer to have to me, I’d take it over nano or Coalesence any day! :smiley:

You aren’t changing my mind, I LOVE Valkyrie so much and am so glad that the Devs are committed to keeping it as Mercy’s ult!

I am very happy with her current kit and how the Devs plan on balancing her.

Gemeinsam kämpfen wir :angel:

1 Like
11391

Would you be opposed to the idea of Valkyrie becoming a shorter, burstier ult?

Like, she would get her old super-fast flight speed.

Then the ult would be shortened to at least under 10 seconds, and the chain beams become single target beams with like, 150hps healing and 50% damage boost.

You would still be flying around and supporting your teammates, only this time not even focus fire could take them down because you’re a hekkin’ Valkyrie!

11392

Nope, I’ve suggested this idea a lot too. I like to say, shaving off seconds in exchange for adding power is always a great idea.

Yes please! Old GA speed was so fun, my friends and I called it “fighter jet Mercy” because she went VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

I think I would be sad to get rid of chain beams completely, I’d prefer something like weak chain beams (30 HPS) and super strong main beam (100-150 HPS) but yes I’d be fine with this change as well. As long as they make her Valkyrie beam visuals look more powerful too, I am TIRED of spaghetti noodle beams! It’s my ULT for heaven’s sake! Give me a giant glowing blast of healing energy magic, not some undercooked pasta.

:angel: :star2: This is my ideal fantasy for Mercy. The numbers on current Valk might not be perfect, but the overall gameplay design standpoint and idea fits her character a lot better than Mass Rez ever did, IMO. I want to be actively IN the fight, swooping around and healing, not standing behind a wall because I have rez. If they tuned Valkyrie to be shorter, faster, and stronger, I think she’d be the most fun she’s ever been.

11393

What if rez was an exclusive part of Valkyrie? I think I might have a solution that makes both sides of the Mercy fence happy.

First, do all the above mentioned stuff with Valkyrie. Set the duration to 6 seconds.

Then, make rez something that activates in an AoE when Mercy uses Valk. BUT!! Heroes never die for a price. For every ally rezzed, Valkyrie ends an extra second sooner.

So if Mercy rezzes 2 people at the start of Valkyrie, it only lasts 4 seconds. That’s some good incentive to keep people alive!

To add even more incentive to not let your allies die, Rez would have extra counterplay: it would be treated as part of the transformation ult, so if Mercy rezzes but is killed before the rez completes, the rez is killed, too.

Rez would still be useful for tempo rezzes and stuff, but the main value out of Valkyrie would be the mega beams and superflight. Mercy would get something new on her E.

2 Likes
11394

I’d rather have non-rez 10 second Valkyrie anyday, it’d be much more powerful and strong as an ultimate than any form of mass rez valk tbh. And also, I don’t think mass rez needs to return in any form, it was removed for a reason, and should stay in the grave. But that’s just my personal opinion, I know many Mercy players want it back so idk :man_shrugging:

11395

That’s the beauty of it, though. If you like Valk better than rez, You could just use Valk with no dead teammates in order to get the maximum duration out of it (numbers in my posts tend to be placeholders).

Meanwhile, if someone tries to do a mass rez they’d better have a very good plan afterwards, because they’d be getting almost no valkyrie time afterwards and they don’t have immunity to protect them from all the enemy focus about to come down on them… and if they die, the plan was all for nothing since their rezzing teammates will die with them.

It’s much better to use this rez/Valkyrie hybrid for the Valkyrie part, but if the enemy decides to stupidly blow all their ults in one fight you still have that last resort in your back pocket. No guarantees it’ll work, though.

You can also use it to quickly pick the tank back up if they died early in the fight, since the ult-rez would be cast faster than E rez.

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11396

Yeah but it’s not that I don’t want to use mass rez (Which I really don’t), I just don’t want it to be an option for other Mercy players to use.

One of the things I HATED about Mass Rez and 4-rez valk was that it REWARDED the Mercy player who used her ult AFTER the teamfight was over or almost over.

I would pop valk, and use chain damage boost to kill 3 people on the enemy team, and their Mercy would use Valk and rez them all. Like…wtf. She just got rewarded for her team dying first. Or with Mass Rez, I’d tempo rez 1-2 people to continue a push, and then the enemy Mercy would come out of hiding and mass rez her team we just wiped. So now they have the advantange…because she played cheaply? It just isn’t a great feeling for anyone to play against.

That’s why I like Valk with no extra rezzes, there’s no cushion for bad Mercy players to rely on to bring people back, you need to KEEP people alive rather than UNDO death.

Buffing the healing of her main beam still lets her make impactful plays and keep people alive without just letting her reverse death. Idk tho, it’s an interesting idea.

1 Like
11397

I get that. It’s why I put in the penalty of “the more you rez, the less valk time you get”, and the condition that if Mercy dies before her teammates are finished rezzing, the rez gets cancelled and nobody gets to come back to life except in the spawn room.

You know why the devs gave Mercy 1.0 invulnerability on rez?

It was because when she rezzed, she made herself the center of attention… of an enemy team full of players who were very angry at Mercy for what she pulled. They’d immediately pounce on her, and she’d be dead before her teammates could even finish the revive animation. It was called “suicide rezzing”.

The devs didn’t want that to be a thing, so they gave Mercy invulnerability on rez… only it backfired, and a lot of Mercies started going for bold, fat rezzes that would have gotten them killed before the buff.

I’m proposing that Mercy have the ability to use Valkyrie to rez, but she will not be invulnerable… so nearly all of the “huge rezzes” will be an even bigger risk than E-rezzing in the middle of a battlefield.

11398

Except it’s not in my power, it’s up to teammates to avoid almost all damage to make 60 hps sufficient.

That’s why it’s more team-reliant, than before - teammates still die, except this time there is no plan B for them.

My ideal gameplay is opposite from actively being in the fight. I leave that to my teammates, as I am not willing to test, on which shot enemy DPS will finally get me. Sudden surprises, that don’t involve killing enemy team, are a lot more appealing to me, and that’s what mass resurrect was. Direct engagement was always boring to me.

Not up to me. Either teammates can win without Valkyrie, and it just makes it faster, or they are doomed anyway. At least with Zen, other team has to use ults, rather than just focus fire.

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11399

Girl why are you playing OW then? Yikers. This is a fast paced, competitive, MOBA-esque hero FPS shooter. Direct participating is a MUST, that’s why she got reworked in the first place…lol. If you want an un-engaged game go play Mancala or something.

I personally love Mercy’s cat and mouse gameplay. The most fun games are the ones where I am constantly on my toes, constantly moving and flying and dodging and weaving. But I’m still actively participating and engaged in teamfights during that, healing and damage boosting WHILE still playing the crazy ducking and dodging game. THAT’S how Mercy’s gameplay is intended to be. Flying all around keeping yourself and your team alive.

Standing still behind a wall for 8 seconds waiting for your team to die so you can press Q to mass rez them isn’t how she is supposed to be played, so mass rez got removed. Stay mad about it, it’s not coming back :wave:

I’m done replying in this thread now, I have nothing to prove or argue for, as the Devs agree with my perspective and have said multiple times that Mass Rez is NOT coming back, that Valkyrie is STAYING her ult, and Rez is STAYING her E ability. That, combined with the fact that they’ve added Valkyrie specific ult-is-charging voicelines, skin specific E rez voicelines in German that the enemy hears, as well as having her use Valkyrie in the latest Archives cinematic and giving her a Valkyrie spray for the event, just solidifies the fact that Valk is here to stay! :smiley:

Mass rez is rotting in it’s grave rn, and I am dancing on it! :dancer: :dancing_women: 700 hours on Mercy and I’m never gonna stop enjoying this amazing version of her :smiley:

1 Like
11400

Because that’s another way of playing Mercy. If other players don’t play her the way you do, does that invalidate the way they want to play?

The heart of the matter is – Mercy is mostly played passively. In one pro player’s words, she doesn’t have a lot of outplay potential. Neptuno is the only Mercy in pro-leagues who plays her semi-aggressively, other players like Ark play her passively and selfishly. These are the words of Ark on the matter –

“We try to make selfish plays. I’m trying to be alive all the time and Jjonak always plays selfishly, too,” Ark said, adding that he and Jjonak form the “core” of NYXL. “If you want Winston to go in and your enemy’s Winston is between me and our Winston, I try to make our teammates make him go back to the base so they can make me more comfortable,” he said, adding, “be selfish.”

Would you recommend that Ark play Mancala?

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11401

It was removed, unless you want to kill enemies, or enemies by mistake assume you to be a big threat.

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11402

This. Mercy had outplay potential, but elitist players got really butthurt about it.

They think that the only legitimate form of out playing is through direct combat. Since Mercy’s skill expression is found in every category but direct combat, they hated her and demanded nerfs until she couldn’t outplay them anymore.

4 Likes
11403

No, it doesn’t, but just because they WANT to play passively doesn’t mean Mercy’s kit should be designed around that. You can play passive all you want, but don’t come whining on the forums when it doesn’t work out.

If I wanna play Lucio as a super passive support, that’s ok, but if I am losing my games and not being effective that’s MY fault, not an issue with Lucio’s design.

Play passive all you want, but don’t blame your own bad gameplay and skill on Mercy being “bad”. Because she’s not bad, she’s pretty great actually.

None of anything ArK just said is him being “unegaged” and “not directly participating” like the person I was responding to said. I know ArK, he’s been on my friendslist since stage 1 of season 1 (I’m a 4300 sr Mercy main, I play with OWL players in comp all the time, and I watch his streams and know how he plays. Yes, he’s very cautious, but he is also always constantly PARTICIPATING in the fight, not standing around a corner waiting to swoop in and rez like Mercy 1.0 players). Being selfish =/= being unengaged.

Your argument makes zero logical sense and holds no validity in the grand scheme of game balance.

1 Like
11404

Just an FYI, I am the poster behind the Azula account, my account was on hold due to a post I made roasting xQc’s bad Mercy gameplay :slight_smile:

I’m back now :slight_smile:

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11405

So? I happen to think Mercy’s E-rez is more powerful than mass rez – I called it right at the start when Valk Mercy was still in PTR, because at that time I thought the ability to undo a first pick was too powerful. At that time, I even thought Mercy was OWL-ready for OWL season 1. An e-ability which, btw, they nerfed so hard afterwards it is unusable in low tier play.

It doesn’t change the fact that the changes to Mercy since then has been focused on making her viable in pro-play, and unbearable in low-tier play – especially the heal nerf which didn’t affect high tiers so much, but definitely affected low tier play.

You high tier players are so disconnected with the rest of the playerbase – you might be contented with the state of Mercy as she is right now, the rest of us aren’t, especially the ones dying over and over again to failed e-rez.

P.S. E-rez which your friend Ark doesn’t do so much so that he doesn’t die. Last I looked up he has 50% lower e-rezzes than the norm in OWL.

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11406

LOL but it really isn’t. You can rez right in front of the enemy in low tier play. I know this because I have low SR smurfs where I play Mercy so I can understand the perspective of the low SR mercy mains on here. She’s so easy down there it’s not even funny.

That’s true

Then don’t die. Play smarter, rez better.

This is the point Im trying to stress. Mercy isn’t bad, YOU ARE BAD AT MERCY if you are dying so much

He also has more healing than all OWL Mercys and less deaths. His team dies less, he doesn’t need to use rez as much, he knows how to keep them alive with his beams instead. Also, didn’t you just say that high SR players are “disconnected with the rest of the playerbase”? So why are you using ArK then? lol…

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