And what are those different times with regards to the use of her ult? Can you identify them? Feel free to elaborate.
Because at the end of the day, preferences matter. What I am pointing out is that this version of Mercy requires aggressive play – battle Mercy – in order to be effective. That’s full use of her ult. And it runs counter to another segment of the player base: those that want a pacifist sort of gameplay.
The current talk in General Discussions is that the player population is dwindling – and it’s true. There’s even talk that OW is going free-to-play some time this year.
Unless Blizzard caters to a diverse number of preferences, this game is going to die. And no amount of reveals wrt the sexual preferences of the heroes is going to save them.
No, what Hellsqueen is referring to is the base kit – because Tracer has blink and recall, she has the most diverse role in terms of how she is used: flanker, duelist, backline-dive, assassin.
Her ult is lackadaisical, but her regular kit is awesome. It’s the primary reason why she is part of the vanguard of any team comp focused on offense. Tracer is a good all around general purpose DPS hero.
OTOH, Mercy used to be a good all around general purpose support. Now, she is very niche – because of the amount of burst damage in the game, and also because her resurrect only works in very specific circumstances. Her decision-making with regards to resurrect boils down to – is it safe? And that’s it.
Sure… I don’t know why we’re discussing the details of how the SR system worked… I made it clear there were many problems outside of an SR exploit.
Yeah sure… Like SR system was whacky. We all know this. What’s the point of all this?
That does nothing to little to address hide and rez as a tactic. LOS wasn’t a significant factor in that tactic, as you’d GA into the center of your blob of dead bodies.
Again we’re just making a bad ult worst imo. I don’t see a reason for that.
No one’s blaming mass rez for why the other supports were needing buffs or anything. Wtf is this coming from? Mercy with Mass Rez was not a meta pick. Popular sure, but not meta. It was Lucio and Zen after the triple tank. All the way up to the rework basically.
Agree.
Arguable.
Ah I should’ve read this first. It’s very understandable. This topic is a bitter one.
Hmmm… Very interesting take on it all tbh, one I don’t see a lot. One I’ll have to think on more. I think this is the kind of stuff that should be discussed. I don’t see Mass Rez being necessary, I’d like at this point that the discussion move past that and onto things like this and how to incorporate that in a way that doesn’t require 1:1-5.
Use it in response to an ult storm: bad. Use it to make a hard push, sustain a push, or react to a counter that isn’t burst based etc: good.
At the end of the day tons of stuff matters. If you care about them that is.
Hmm… I dunno about battle Mercy, but yeah I can see aggressive play having reward potential. And risk. Makes sense.
That’s a really specific demand. Perhaps those members of the playerbase won’t be satisfied and are better off finding it in another game.
Nothing to do with the topic at hand tbh. I don’t want to get into messy feelings and stuff.
Okay… So we want Mercy to pull out the pistol more? But then some people are all “but the pacifist” etc. Cuz pulling out the pistol more would give Mercy a more “diverse role in terms of how she is used” but people seem against that?
Sure. Mass Rez not required.
Not really. Mass Rez was only general all purpose in settings that allowed it to be. In other settings it was used like E Rez.
Again… Mass Rez not required.
I get it. You guys have feelings.
Mass Rez not required.
If Mass Rez is the only feel you want… Well… That’s a you problem.
If I want to kill enemies, I won’t be picking Mercy. I would pick DPS. Besides, other healers are much more suited for killing: Zenyatta with his orbs of death is first example.
They had to force this playstyle on only healer, that can’t hurt and heal at the same time, showing that they fail to see the difference.
I’m saying that hide and rez was a systemic problem. Not mechanic. If people had started complaining about how they lost with 15 rezzes and felt that they didn’t deserve a 80 sr drop, and blizzard said "You died 6 times, and only healed 9,000; the enemy mercy died 3 times and had 17,000 healing. You lost that sr cuz u suck at the game " (maybe more tactfully) then the issue of hide and rez would have died. Because it was more inconvenient to the player to keep dropping over one aspect of her kit.
i don’t think it was bad. Just niche. Because Rez itself is niche.
there ae plenty who do seem to find mass rez OP, but in general, rez. I’m saying that valkyrie as an ult with tempo rez made us hard cap rez overall and it showed that rez was never the issue with mercy being OP.
I’d appreciate it. This is what I was trying to get at the other day. So when you have the time, If you’d like, I did in fact write all my thoughts regarding this and I’m not very… Clickbaity so it only got a few views and one real response. But I do like to try and further discussion because… idk. Overwatch is making me mad so I like making my hypothetical overwatch on forums more now.
Personally, I’ve suggested multiple things to “fix” mercy. For me, my focus is always on making her a support that is mobile and a strong healer. I did propose a rez mechanic one, but my other suggestions do not include rez as a mechanic at all (I think it needs to be inherently tied to her ult).
Yeap, and they are. It’s the reason why an analyst predicted OW is going F2P.
I’m definitely playing a lot less – I used to watch a lot of pro OW and analysis, I don’t anymore.
That’s the thing – when initial OW game first came out, the heroes are clear archetypes of something, and Mercy is clearly the mother-goddess/pacifist-nurturing archetype.
There are other archetypes in the game, and they’re muddying the identities of some their popular heroes for some PR stunts that might bump the game for a short period of time, but imho is detrimental in the long term.
I. That’s the key word there. I. You reply to so much by saying “I don’t find X” or “I find y”. You can think whatever you want, but until you accept that people are gonna take issue with your terminology and actually think about changing how things work in your bubble, you’re gonna keep getting looked at funny.
I see no reason. Not everyone was using it just with SR exploit in mind. Team mates were demanding it be used. You died with rez you were a boosted bot. That isn’t a symptom of 1 person gaming the SR system. That make sense?
Fair. To each their own.
People say a lot of stuff. I can’t be bothered addressing why people say stupid things. I don’t think you can reasonably argue that Mass Rez was OP. In certain settings, sure, it could “feel” like it. Just like Bastion can “feel” OP in Silver.
The feel is worth keeping in mind and considering for sure, but it’s not a driving force in anything really, imho.
I will definitely do my best to check out this thread, etc. I truly do appreciate and want to understanding your perspective more.
Fair. And everyone has their different reasons for that. If you polled the people that dropped this game I doubt “no Mass Rez” would be an overly common reason.
It’s about hero design as well. Any other healer doesn’t have to switch to different gun to deal damage, they can do it straight away.
Like difference between Reinhardt and Orisa. Reinhardt can’t both shield and fight at the same time, so he is dedicated tank. Orisa can do both at the same time, and she is more of a hybrid tank.
Hard push, nope. Sustain a push, maybe. React to a counter that isn’t burst based – what isn’t burst-based these days?
And I don’t see valk as a decisive counter to an ult in those reasons, which is what mass resurrect used to be.
It’s bad gameplay. Prior to valk, mass resurrect is one of the longest to build up, and is definitely the longest to use in OWL. The specific circumstance to use it is similar to the way Zen’s transcendence is used on OWL these days – save the team, attempt to reverse a lost team fight.
Valk is arguably more versatile, but it doesn’t deliver the same decisive result a good trans or a good sound barrier does.
To be specific, an ult that is ONLY usable to save a team will more often than not result in lost team fights when said ults are used – statistics in OWL supports this, and is the reason why Zen’s trans currently has similar low team fight win rates as mass res Mercy when PharMercy was a thing. It’s also the reason why Mercy was so niche in high level play prior to valk, and that’s the way old-school Mercy mains like it.
ON A SIDE NOTE: Lucio’s sound barrier + speed boost is the preferred means to initiate, not Zen trans + Lucio speed boost which saw some use during dive meta. I am mentioning this because Zen trans and Lucio sound barrier is more versatile than Mass Rez in that it can be used either to save a team from an ult combo, or it can be used to initiate a team fight, either defensively to save or offensively to take initiative. Mass Rez is unique and niche because it is the only ult which can be used solely defensively, to save a team.
The ones with a hero fantasy does. And that is what OW used to be, until the current watered down DPSWatch it is currently becoming.
Often you can sustain push without it. And usually support ult is there for some unexpected situations, like enemies having way better aim and dealing a lot of damage right through normal healing.
If 50 hps aren’t enough to sustain team, who said that 60 hps will be?
Versatile, yet not good enough in any of choices. Even Coalescence provides more decisive results.
Hmm, honestly, even 60 hps isn’t enough to heal tanks. I feel that best is 70 burst heals to reverse body shots from a single DPS is good, gotta back off when hit with head shots. This is the primary reason I don’t consider Mercy to be a main healer anymore – her healing isn’t enough for tanks.
So when a game starts and a team mate picks Mercy, I go for Zen in the hopes that 50 + 30 HPS is enough, and even then our tank line backs off when there are too many enemy DPS focusing the tanks.
Lol, I can think of one case – damage boosting an ulting Genji.
I get decent results when using Valk to alternate heal and damage boost a 5v5, but then OWL game play isn’t the same as ladder or QP, the emphasis is getting picks, so there’s a lot of memorable battle Mercy moments in OWL as compared to ladder or QP. I often do battle Mercy, but it’s harder because the instincts of players in ladder and QP is to back off when at a sudden disadvantage, not to go all in dying on point/payload for a reset.
Coalescence is very good, definitely feels better than Valk.
Somehow in my games it’s opposite - players rush towards their deaths, as soon as I start healing them. Unfortunately, it’s usually not on objective, and it’s not coordinated rush either. No retreats either - fight goes on, until only two most cautious players are left alive.
It’s possible to sustain push without Valkyrie, if your team is already winning, since Valkyrie doesn’t turn tables. Found it useful to avoid annoying flankers, though.
Factually, refusing to use the full kit (including but not limited to Mercys pistol, in this case) of a hero - any hero - is not a character problem – it is a player problem