yes, the logic of blizzard is something comes from space I gues.
“we need to get rid of goats! What we gonna do?” LEts do 2-2-2 role lock!
– Just restrict tanks and supports count 4heads!
“We need to get rid of multiple dps comps and force players to play tanks!”
– Why the hell u need 2-2-2 for that? Base your match making algorithm on player’s profile preferences to build that compositions possibility! Usually 1 main tank player forces 1 main suport player, if u got this already, 1 dps player can switch to an off tank which is pretty dps role. Why u need role lock for that? Why u need to kill whole flex playerbase?
Role lock which will work better is 1MT+1MSup+4flex (no shield stacking rule, no tank stacking rule, put mei into off tank category already!)
Nope remember only reason they did 2-2-2 because of goats.
tanks and healers are the problem.
Thing is 222 lock is the perfect solution. It could be better, like forcing a shield tank, which I would like, but I dont mind how it is now.
And swap dont work man. Nobody ever swapped from a shield tank to another shield tank, nobody ever swapped to anything but dps 99% of the time no exaggeration.
People cant be trusted. They cant even be patient to wait for tanks and healers FOR THEM. They straight marginalize healer and tank players and my opinions on balanced that would allow me to be ok with more dps is never heard.
Take away the one shot and nerf every single dps damage, all of their damage abilities THEN we can talk about having more dps in my games.
But not enough tanks and healers, Neither players nor heros
It would be 1 think if you had an evenly split roster but right now you more dps than healers and tanks combined.
BAD combo!
Most people learned the hero they liked, can’t just expect them to switch.
I mean, says you; the sharp player dropoff that I’ve noticed and the fact that Blizzard are so quickly trying something else out after rolling this out paints a rather different story, though. YOU think it’s the ‘perfect solution’, many disagree.
edit: to clarify, I’m trying to point out to you that this is an opinion, not a fact. You think it’s a great solution, great. That doesn’t make it factually the best solution.
Also this sounds like a LOT of changes to a LOT of characters, abilities etc. You realize you’re basically asking for them to do a HUGE amount of legwork on the game for this solution to be viable, and there’s not even any guarantee that you’re right and your version of the game would be better than the one we have now, right?
I mean… =/ do I need to paint how unreasonable all this is?
Max 2 tanks, 2 supports, 3 dps.
That’s a game I could play.
Dude its objective FACT that 222 is the perfect solution to ME. I don’t play alot of dps. Why because I played I a time where dps players would hold my games hostage if I didnt pick healer or tank, because I’m the player that wants to win no matter what in comp.
I feel, as a competitive team loving supportive person, completely taken advantage of.
Now it’s happening again. They are trying to take support away from the tank, placing even more strain on healers to keep everyone alive.
The game is balanced right now, balanced enough where if I try super hard enough I know we can win, unlike before, relying on dps that offer me NOTHING but damage and kill kill kill.
The game will be seriously hurt by 132, I can tell you tanks and supports will lose serious confidence in the system that would dare favor someone that’s more about their personal fun than supporting anyone else’s fun. Like how could they listen to someone on tank balance that never plays tanks, now this?
Literally shocks me we are even having this conversation right now.
Finally 222 helped gain players too, not just lose them. But 132 would permanently lose atleast one tank/healer main
Me.
If they ever got rid of 222 I’d quit and never come back, never. That shows right there that they care more about these dps than doing the tanks and healers a huge solid with 222. They could do 132, decide they dont like it and bring 222 back and I would never ever come back.
I’m 1000000% sure there are many support and tank players like me that will NEVER forget how bad the game was when dps were allowed to do what they wanted, which was make the game worst for everyone.
Dps still wants tanks and healer, they just dont want to pay for it.
Instead of 132 how about classic competitive, where all the dps can go kill each other over and over again.
I think its unreasonable to leave the 222 format. But you have to see how added another dps would drastically change the flow of the game? If they added another dps I’m sure nearly every character in the game would HAVE to be rebalanced. Literally no way we could keep one shots when you could go triple sniper with mercy Baptiste support and you only have 1 shield tank.
The entire game would rest solely on your snipers and burst mechanism. To prevent this damage would have to be lowered across the board, tanks would need huge buffs and off tanks would be dps.
Well you’re entitled to your opinion, but from where I’m standing you’re dead wrong.
Well of course you think I’m dead wrong, that’s exactly what a dps player does. They cant tell you why, they dont want to argue, they think their fun is more important than someone else “just because”.
Playing with more than 3 dps is unfun for tanks and healers. Dps also like less dps, they dont have a problem with the game, they have a problem waiting in line.
They have a problem with things being FAIR.
Thanks for just assuming what I play rather than, y’know, asking me lol. Or assuming the wild idea that maybe I’m able to see more than one angle of the game and am looking out for the betterment of the game as a whole and all that.
But hey, I just mostly play healers, you’re still dead wrong on all fronts, so no change there.
If you are looking out for the whole why are you ignoring tank and healers for dps. 132 only helps dps and their queue time problems. It also destabilizes the game.
Like I said I’m willing to try 132, but only if there are huge changes as soon as its implemented. Near invincible tanks and every single dps has their primary sources of damage nerfed.
That would be better for the tanks and the healers. Healers could have fun again, their now 3 dps wouldnt die quite as fast, and your tank should be a super happy killing machine, and dps get to play their dps.
Why is that not good for the game as a whole. If we get 132 dps has to be nerfed and one shots have to go.
You keep accusing me of doing these things that I am clearly not doing. Seriously, I think you are just really intense about this and need to take a chill pill, because you’re just being super aggressive about it all for no reason.
I’m not ‘ignoring tanks and healers’ - their Q times are currently super short, and DPS Q times are super long. Changing it so that there is one more DPS than tanks, the least played role in the game, won’t somehow ‘take away’ from anyone. You are being really, really unreasonable in just so many avenues that I don’t even know how to point them all out to you.
You just are like, way mad about this and I think you need to cool your jets or something and think more objectively.
DPS is the most popular role in the game. It also has the largest number of heroes BY FAR. Naturally there are the most players who want to play those heroes, they’re not all selfish monsters just because they want to play DPS; and yet you are so quick to demonize them and act like just because they don’t want to sit for 15 minutes PER GAME before every match that somehow they’re being unreasonable?
This is a game, a multiplayer game that you NEED a team to play, and no one enjoys waiting 15 minutes PER MATCH. The viewership numbers on twitch for Overwatch have gone from an average of 60-80K down to an average of like 15k, it’s regularly down on the 3rd or 4th row; the game IS suffering. People are regularly making forum posts asking why so many high and low level players are being paired with them, which means the matchmaker is struggling to find an adequate number of players to sort through. We’ve got Masters players being put in with Platinum on the regular now ! so you REALLY think the game isn’t suffering, players wise?
I watch games news for a hobby with my morning coffee and trust me, Overwatch and Blizzard are s.t.r.u.g.g.l.i.n.g - they need better solutions than what 222 has done for us. Who knows, maybe 123 isn’t it, but they gotta keep trying.
edit: I mean they straight up just lost like six popular casters for OWL and one of them said that it was because he just couldn’t find enthusiasm for what the game had become anymore. The game is not doing as good as it was, and to fail to see that is basically to just be OK with letting it drown. IDK about you but that doesn’t seem very objective or nice to Overwatch; I want it to get better. It has the bones to be amazing, truly! it should live up to that potential.
The game is screwed. No way of fixing it now. Blizz done goofed.
I’m sorry if I come off as aggressive.
I want you to go to quickplay classic and play 60 hours with Orisa and not switch NO MATTER WHAT.
Then come back and attempt to have this conversation with me, about how dps queue needs to be shorter because its “killing the game”.
Play Orisa or Rein or sigma for 60 hours in PC and then come back and tell me how you think 132 would (could) be a good idea.
Hell, just play Orisa for a couple hours without switching in qpc, tell me how much fun solo tanking is. How much fun it is to have all the responsibility to protect your team.
I’m upset because it astounds me how completely ignorant people are to the absolute HORROR it used to be.
Well then I’m sorry you had such a bad experience with Overwatch before Role Lock, but for me my best times were probably about 2 years after the game launched, I’d say before Doomfist and Brig and Hammond and Moira. The game just played really differently, Mercy felt awesome to play back when she had five man rez; then they started tinkering with her because a few people didn’t like the concept of ‘if you kill her while she’s rezzing, that’s a counter’ and some folks got it in their head that her ultimate ‘had no counter’ and it all snowballed from there.
I’ve played a fair amount of Sigma and Orisa (and hammond, the only tanks I’m awful at are Rein and Roadhog, really) ~ I tended to be a full flex player always playing what I thought would be the best addition to the team for probably about the first two years I played. These days I prefer not to tank if I can help it, just because they feel so slow and I prefer something that goes a little faster or is less in the mix, I’m not a brawler.
Anyway ~ my point is, the game, as a whole, is clearly suffering - by many metrics that I listed. I’m glad that you enjoy 222 and that’s great, and maybe 123 isn’t the be all end all perfect solution, but I’d rather try something new than stick my head in the sand and insist everything is hunky dory when I’ve seen the player base leave in droves like they threatened to do with Brig ever since 222 was included. TBH the fact that Jeff is SO QUICKLY doing something else and popping it onto PTR kind of tells me that they probably have seen from internal metrics that players are just not playing as much.
Being locked into a role for an entire match when you have that voice in your head going ‘man if only I could swap to X we might win this’ is maddening as a player. I don’t think there’s any amount of good that 222 can offer that will outweigh that negative impact that it has. A hero cap is a far more graceful solution ~ there will always be SOME matches that are an automatic whiff, I’ve had enough Torbs doing dances in spawn all match to tell you that much. There’s no perfect solution, but you were insisting that it was the perfect solution, so ~ it ain’t, is all I’m saying. It ain’t.
I’m telling you if there are any more than 2 dps per match, you will lose the tank and healers you’ve got now.
This is bad for tanks and healers, not good, bad. There is no future where having more than 2 dps is good WITHOUT dps getting every single ability nerfed. Blizzard WILL lose long time tank and healer players for good, it will definitely happen. Literally no doubts.
222 was the best thing to happen to this game. If they took it all always because dps players refuse to play tank and supports, refuse to play quickplay classic, then refuse to wait in line to get tanks and healers when tanks and healers have SUFFERED GREATLY AND MANY LOSSES FOR MANY YEARS, then they will know for sure 100$ blizzard doesnt give a damn about them. They will be gone the first day and queue times would be even worst.
You’re free to believe tanks and healers would be super happy to have another char as character that can one shot them on the enemy team and less game changing power for tanks and more for dps. Yeah right.
Role queue wasn’t just for 3-3.
They might as well just revert Role Queue then, which is a change I don’t ever want to see. I don’t ever want to have to be in a position where I have to solo heal ever again. Seeing all the “I need healing!” pings from the 5 other dps players on my team while frantically trying to not die to the other team’s 5 dps still gives me nightmares.