Why Don't People Want Bastion Viable? 🤔

[ChibiFox-11511]

I liked the Old sentry a lot too, did you mean with old ammo capacity and headshot capability as well?

After talking so long about this subject, that part is implied. X3

Also What do you mean with old tank? the armor bonus?

Hell yes he did.

[DrClan-1789]

Junkrat was designed with the intention of countering Bastion and Torbjorn’s turret. This was mentioned in a Blizzcon panel.

You can also add Sombra to the list of counters, since we are imagining weak heroes being good right now

[DrClan-1789]

Doesn’t Roady still have 50% Damage Reduction?

Yes, but for twice as long. So 25% reduction would make it somewhat equivalent.

I liked the Old sentry a lot too, did you mean with old ammo capacity and headshot capability as well?

Also What do you mean with old tank? the armor bonus?

Yes, 200 ammo with headshots and 150 armor upon activation with tank.

[LilPuddin-11310]

Moving faster isn’t going to make him more evasive in a 1v1 battle, but it will let him move faster to areas or allow him to move faster to cover/help.

He shouldn’t have to run for cover, if he could output huge damage… By giving up Mobility… That’s what Sentry is for.

No Bastion should ever think: “Oh, i’m in a 1v1 with an enemy dps… better run away instead of holding my ground”

The problem with Bastion is his damage output in Sentry Mode is unfun for his enemies (it’s literally 450dps at 35m or closer). Yet it’s still crap because not moving in this game is a death sentence. So it might be best to leave it as is and buff other parts of his kit. Any small buff to Sentry can make him OP and a nerf to a risky-stand-still-and-probably-die ability is outrageously stupid. RIP 2 balancing, press F to pay respects and/or use the teleporter.

Anyway, it’s not about him having to flee, it’s about him having the option to quickly move around in Recon. Also faster movement = faster repositioning, faster HP kit grabbing, or faster ally-saving.

[Dysvalence-1915]

Yea… he should be able to hold pressure on a corner, so the Hanzo can’t peek again from the doorway five meters away… Headshots and low spread would make that happen.

Right now, the Hanzo wins that no matter what.

Bastion should be able to peek with sentry in a similar manner, or at least with significantly less risk. If you’ve ever played TF2, on the heavy you could jump to spin up your minigun while going around a corner, and get back around the corner within a reasonable amount of time, even if it was slower than other classes.

But when Bastion wants to go around a corner and set up in sentry, he’s extremely vulnerable during the switch animation, and is still at risk after ironclad kicks in since he has to commit to staying there until the enemy is no longer there or a friendly barrier bails him out. If the enemy is already there he is going to get blown up, and honestly Bastion’s inability to survive long in sentry is less of a problem than being able to survive setting up somewhere relevant in the first place.

[DrClan-1789]

@LilPuddin-11310

(it’s literally 450dps at 35m or closer)

That is where you are wrong.

Bastion's real damage output (kinda)

I wanted to know how much damage Bastion did at different ranges, and also wanted to debunk the “Bastion does 450 DPS, he’s fine” arguments with math, so I decided to test it out at different ranges. Here’s the results, and some explanation of the tests below. 0m is meant to be a control so you have something to compare against. These tests were done on the PTR when the falloff changes (which bumped the minimum damage from 30% to 50%) were still only on that server. I suspect that the damage di…

[ChibiFox-11511]

it’s literally 450dps at 35m

You might want to factor in missed shots there… because that stat could not be more wrong.

Bastion should be able to peek with sentry in a similar manner, or at least with significantly less risk.

The same effect is sitting where you are, and letting them willingly peek you… Sticking there head into a stream of Bullets should be more punishing.

ESPECIALLY AT 20 METERS AND CLOSER.

[Trilly-11672]

Uh what? If anything Bastion encourages hiding behind shields and barriers.

Yeah but if he can also shred those barriers faster than anyone else in the game, it hasn’t really accomplished anything other than to group the enemy up behind a shield he can just melt. They’d have to be actively moving around to avoid being killed by him, which creates a huge shift in how tanks are used to playing this game. And as we know, people don’t like having to adjust how they play the game.

A viable Bastion would pretty much erase Brigitte, another one if these forums’ big problem areas right now, but people would rather see heroes nerfed to oblivion or outright removed than they would want to see hard-to-fight heroes be viable. Roadhog and Reaper also suffer from this unfortunate case of Saltiforumitis.

[DrClan-1789]

That is why he is ment to hold ground, not take it.

The exception to this being on a payload, in which case he is still technically hold the ground around the payload, wherever that may be.

[ChibiFox-11511]

That is why he is ment to hold ground, not take it.

The exception to this being on a payload, in which case he is still technically hold the ground around the payload, wherever that may be.

PREACH.

This. ALL OF THIS.

Just because a Bastion is there, doesn’t mean a Hanzo should be able to make him flee, just by being in the point with him.

[ZenTears-1135]

Bastion sentry should not be touched or it will be like the old days with bation OP bastion OP thread after thread.

He should get a new ability to supplement his overall damage and cannon shot is the best solution.

[ChibiFox-11511]

@ZenTears-1135

He should get a new ability to supplement his overall damage and cannon shot is the best solution.

Bastion’s damage is the problem… ok… Going good so far…

@ZenTears-1135

Bastion sentry should not be touched or it will be like the old days with bation OP bastion OP thread after thread.

Contradictory statements aside… Bastion was fine. it’s the people who complained, who may have been messing up.

[DrClan-1789]

Bastion sentry should not be touched or it will be like the old days with bation OP bastion OP thread after thread.

It does not matter what people say, it matters what is fact.

[Dysvalence-1915]

That is why he is ment to hold ground, not take it.

I don’t want a meta based around static entrenchment. That favors the defense, results in more draws, discourages engagements, and makes the game revolve around ults more than it should.

The game is balanced between attack and defense by nearly always favoring the aggressor to compensate for the positional advantages of the defense, which evens things out since the defense can preemptively engage or counterengage. Balancing a character to be viable while being good at holding ground yet being unable to take ground is dangerous for the overall balance of the game.

They’d have to be actively moving around to avoid being killed by him, which creates a huge shift in how tanks are used to playing this game. And as we know, people don’t like having to adjust how they play the game.

There wouldn’t be any shift at all. Tanks still have to get on the point and allow the DPS to get into position; they’d just die faster.

[ZenTears-1135]

It does not matter you say? Ok so what happened to 35% IC?

After all doesn’t matter what people say…

[Colt-2370]

Yes, 200 ammo with headshots and 150 armor upon activation with tank.

Honestly I cant even remember why they removed headshots in the first place, anyone remembers why?

[ChibiFox-11511]

It does not matter you say? Ok so what happened to 35% IC?

After all doesn’t matter what people say…

It stacked damage resistance… did it not?
(Or something along those lines…)

The problem was it’s interaction with Ana’s Ult… And the fact that Bastion lost Dps to gain it.

[DrClan-1789]

His current transformation time makes him decent on attack, but still better suited to deffense.

By choosing Bastion you make a trade of damage in exchange for mobility. A concept that will always and should always be better at defending.

[DrClan-1789]

Yes, and the facts there was that 35% was broken for sentry.

[ChibiFox-11511]

By choosing Bastion you make a trade of damage in exchange for mobility. A concept that will always and should always be better at defending.

F-ING PREACH.

Bastion should NOT EVER Be reworked into some Hanzo reject, hopping around and “Dealing ok damage”