That really isnt answering in what situations she isnt viable. Its just telling me that Mei she isnt meta and is underrated.
1 Like
McCree literally has more dps with body shots than mei does with icicle headshots, their damage per shot may be similar but their fire rates are far apart
This is the wrong mechanic though. The problem with Mei is sheās super strong at close range and inconsistent at range. Giving her no falloff only diminishes snipers against her and nothing else.
It makes more sense for her to have falloff but a shorter wind up on her alt fire. This gives her the consistency she lacks without adding sniper BS and additional spam damage that hurts tanks.
1 Like
It provides a good widow counter that can be played against in a different fashion than genji or tracer. I think itās a good mechanic that gives Mei that overall DPS she was really lacking.
1 Like
Iām not convinced of that. Every sniper in game does a better job at it than Mei and can one shot her, while she requires two shots + wind up time.
Additionally, it help allow her to apply pressure to teams that are pushing in or getting ready to. An example would be Rein shields, having no fall off makes her damage just slightly more effective when working with her team to force Rein to recharge or break shields.
I mean, that could have also worked as well. Thereās a couple ways to get around to accomplishing the same or similar goals. Iām arguing against the idea the OP had that she had amazing damage. She doesnāt, she consistently on average has the lowest of all damage dealers.
I donāt know. She still needs two shots (one being a head shot) to kill her. It feels inconsistent and bad to die to. It makes sense for Mei to be strong in close range and then scale that strength the farther targets are away from her. She needs more consistency and not RNG.
Itās very annoying and not fun to die to as a sniper. Worse is that the only positives of no falloff are her ability to spam tanks and maybe catch a sniper off guard. It does nothing else.
Meiās issue has never been killing tanks but her inconsistency against mobile and mid ranged DPS. She should be weak to snipers. Her kit is very weird in itās current state.
Damage isnāt important for Mei, impact is. Things like dividing a team and stalling are her strengths. Measuring her against more damage oriented heroes is not accurate. Mei needs to lose her long range elements in favor of a more close-mid range kit.
Itās true that she became less situational with the buffs to her icicle, but I donāt consider this a bad change. She used to worked best on maps like Hanamura on defense, but now can she played on attack as well.
Mei needed buffs back then because she was one of the least picked heroes. She was the only hero with damage fallof on the projectile and the developers removed this to make her more viable, which she needed, and to be consistent with other projectiles.
Her role is staller/disruptor who works best as tank counter, but with the buff is she more on par with other heroes in the damage class.
Mei doesnāt need nerfs.
To answer your question which heroes can counter Mei.
- Reaper
- Junkrat
- Pharah
- Snipers
- Heroes with great mobility can be good as well, because Mei has trouble freezing them.
- Doomfist
- Sombra can be a threat as well because Mei is an utility hero. Without her kit is she pretty vulnerable.
Mei is a close range hero, even without the falloff damage. Her fire rate, travel time and cast time makes hitting enemies with it hard.
Mei also doesnāt has mobility, so you can use the mobility of other heroes in your advantage.
Try exploiting these weaknesses.
But if you want to talk about heroes with their weaknesses removed, shouldnāt we be talking about Hanzo instead?
His rework removed some of his weaknesses.
2 Likes
well mei is like torb they have no damage drop mostly (but torb has a bullet drop.)because they shoot a big projectile. and mei before was prety low pick. so yea she needed some of those buff.
2 Likes
She needs consistent damage in order to have impact. Itās why the icicle change was so important, it helped with that issue and is one of the reasons why I think she is underated.
This is why Iām open to the other idea you yourself brought up. That said, I am seriously not convinced this is a big issue or a major flaw in her design. I think Mei who manages to beat out a sniper in a long range duel earned it, the sniper has every advantage in that scenario.
I never said dealing with tanks was an issue in particular, just that she has increased pressure and that is a good thing.
Your point about mobility is a much more meaningful critique to her kit IMO, as that is absolutely the biggest glaring flaw with her. On paper, she should be great against mobility. In reality, sheās pretty bad at dealing with it.
1 Like
Mei doesnāt need damage because her value comes from utility. The ability to silence multiple targets, her sustain and stall ability and cutting off enemies/defending her team with the wall.
If you want Mei to do more damage than that means sheād need some nerfs to the other parts of her kit. If you want more consistency then giving her falloff but reducing her wind up makes more sense. The majority of her damage should come from close-mid range anyway.
Dying to Mei as a sniper is very frustrating and in most cases itās not even a duel. Mei will find an angle (usually from very far) while the sniper is preoccupied and pop her head for 150 damage. Not really a duel in my opinion.
Tanks have it pretty rough. Mei is already a massive threat in close range. It makes no sense that she can also pummel barriers for full damage at max range. Tanks are really the only targets (besides snipers) that Mei can get no falloff value against.
I think this is because Blizzard wants her to be specifically strong against tanks. Her freeze effects tanks faster than smaller targets and her wind up means she canāt fight smaller mobile targets. Another reason why Mei is encouraged to target tanks over fighting other heroes.
I think it should be swapped. She should freeze smaller targets faster and bigger targets slower. The wall is already a great tool at blocking tanks while not really doing much against other heroes. She should also have a reduced wind up (in addition to falloff) but maybe she has a delay so the time between shots stays the same.
With these changes Mei becomes better at dealing with mobility, a more consistent damage threat at mid range and not so punishing on tanks. She would be an overall more balanced hero.
This may sound weird, but I would have agreed with you if Mei was still a defense hero. She is a damage hero now so I think itās fine that she deal a little bit more damage on long range. I mean, Genjiās projectiles doesnāt has falloff and heās a close range hero as well. (I know this is a dumb reason.)
Mei is still a close range hero, even without the falloff damage. Her fire rate, travel time (even if itās the fastest projectile, itās still has travel time) and cast time makes hitting enemies on long range hard.
She is indeed an utility hero, but Mei needed buffs back then. The devs removed the falloff to make it more consistent with other projectiles, but they too were scared for MeiCree to return and even stated that they will revert this buff if she became too oppressive again. So far they havenāt addressed it or so I guess they are fine with it. And besides, she wasnāt exactly viable as a close range hero alone. The removal of the falloff made her a bit more viable and balanced.
Butā¦ does she need nerfs?
Does her stats and pickrate tells you she needs nerfs?
Is she overpowered right now?
Mei still has the lowest average damage of all DPSāers and tanks. And as I have stated above, she still works best as a close range hero.
Uhmā¦ Dying to a sniper is very frustrating as well and itās not dual in most cases as well.
Snipers can still oneshot Mei.
Mei canāt oneshot snipers.
Not to mention that Mei has a larger critbox.
She is still countered by snipers.
The freeze rate of tanks and squishies is the same.
The thing is, tanks are easier to hit with Meiās primary fire thanks to their larger hitboxes. Not to mention that the slow of Meiās freeze is being stacked with the self slow of tanks if they have their shields up or are shooting. And because they tends to be the frontline, are they easier to wall of.
Fun fact: Mei was originally designed to act as a counter to mobility according to Geoff. This is why she doesnāt has mobility herself. Players discovered she was stronger as a tank counter and the devs buffed her to fit that role better. (According to Geoff did they gave her piercing freeze to make her stronger at the upcoming tank back then.)
3 Likes
Mei is only somewhat useful in point brawling and slowing down enemies in corridors and doorways. Even without fall-off, itās not easy to match the kill potential of other heroes. What Doomfist can accomplish in one second will take Mei several times longer. Icicles canāt one shot anything except Tracer, so even spam is not something enemies need to be concerned with.
1 Like
It rewards Mei players that are able to aim with it; being one of the smaller projectile hitboxes in the game, having an average proj. speed and using up ammo when you shoot, unlike someone elseā¦
The shots are also very loud during that one second window that the icicle is getting loaded.
Honestly because of the fire rate she has some of the lowest DPS in the entire game
Itās probably also partly to do with consistency, very very few heroes in the game have damage drop off on projectiles to allow them to have a somewhat decent chance against the typically easier to use hitscan, and Mei being one of the few damages that still had dropoff
Absolutely correct.
Meiās damage is extremely low due to her utility and sustain. Her secondary fire is the only thing keeping her competitive at all in the damage department.
4 Likes
Almost every Medium range hero counters her. She has to wait 1s to even fire her projectile.
Hanzo can easily kill her if he shoots after her.
Only one reason, no projectile in overwatch has falloff, a projectile with falloff would be weird as heck for mei
This is correct in that her main value comes from her utility. It is however NOT correct in the assumption that damage is not an important thing for her to have.
Mei had no falloff previously. This is just a revert to that change as Mei fell out of relevancy due in part to that nerf.
Why should she get a nerf to another part of her kit when she had this before and was NOT compensated for it at that time? She fell out of relevancy due in part to that change.
How is this any different then a hanzo/ashe/widow dong the same? Snipers catch each other by surprise all the time. Those are not duels either if that is what you hate. Why is it only bad when Mei does it?
The level of additional damage Mei does to barrierās is negligible. This cannot even be a genuine concern.
3 Likes
Damage as a category is broad. Lotās of utility heroes in that role. Meiās increased range damage goes against her design and inadvertently hurts other heroes. It makes more sense to make her more viable at mid range than giving her no falloff.
Justifying her current state over damage falloff is dumb. What keeps her out of the meta is her weakness at mid range.
Genji is a great example. Genjiās not really a close range hero but he can function well at all ranges. Mei is very powerful in close range so much that sheās weak at mid range. her no falloff only adds a frustration element when playing against her. It doesnāt really improve her damage or make her more balanced.
Removing falloff did nothing for Meiās viability. Mei has seen more usage thanks to the multi freeze change. Mei needs changes but where she is now isnāt good. Her kit is unhealthy for the game.
DPS heroes that are niche or ones that canāt duel enemy DPS are not good for many reasons. Meiās usage is almost entirely built around map dependence. Even then sheās only used to stifle tanks.
When balancing a hero yes. You should give and take to find the appropriate place for a hero. Mei in particular has a very front loaded kit, so giving her anything will mean taking something from that strength.
Pick/win rates are very deceiving in OW. She needs changes not flat nerfs. That means gaining new strengths and losing some.
No but she is very oppressive when played properly.
Yes, Meiās damage is low but it should be. The only DPS hero with more utility is Sombra and sheās very oppressive.
Mei should be strong at close range but she should also counter mobility and have diminishing returns fighting at range.
Snipers do counter Mei but she shouldnāt be able to do the damage she can to them. The same goes for her no falloff spam damage against tanks. She needs to be close-mid range oriented.
The freeze rate on tanks is faster than smaller heroes. Go test it if you like. Tanks lose all momentum instantly compared to smaller heroes.
If tanks get targeted because their large, reward huge ult change and are easily punished thank to CC/silence then tanks needs way more HP/armorā¦
I donāt really care what Geoff said or his opinion. I play the game. I can tell you Meiās current design is horrible. She has massive holes that she canāt overcome and is too good on certain maps. Sheās the worst kind of niche hero because Blizzard wont balance out her kit. The same issues plague Orisa.
Sheās a utility hero. She doesnāt need to have high damage numbers.
And the change hasnāt helped her. All it did was add frustrating RNG damage to the game. Snipers shouldnāt have to content with a close range specialist at range and tanks didnāt need more spam damage either. Especially from a tank silencing specialist hero.
She has too much power at close range. You canāt just give buffs without adjusting her whole kit. Thatās bad balance.
Mei never fell out of relevance with falloff damage. Meiās usage has always been tied to her ult or freeze effectā¦
Because those are ranged heroes, Mei is not. She should be played in close-mid range. Giving her a long ranged too (no matter how inconsistent) is bad game design.
It is. Tanks ability to push is tied to their shield and personal health. A powerful close range hero shouldnāt have full damage spam too. That mechanic is a reason why tank players have been leaving the game.
Meiās icicles are the fastest in the game (20% faster than Hanzos), and she has the same time to fire as Hanzo charging a full charge shot. They are also larger than Hanzoās arrows because he and Genji have the smallest in the game. Good thing DPS isnāt accurate at all, because no one has 100% accuracy. And I personally think projectiles are easier to use than hitscan simply because they are larger and more forgiving.
We can agree on that. Good thing Mei does not have high damage numbers. So we should be perfectly fine with her current state.
The change HAS helped her. I know because I main her.
Her icicle is anything but a RNG based weapon. It is a precision weapon with travel time. Can it be spammed? Of course it can. Any weapon can. But that spam is typically not as effective as precision.
Sniperās had to contend with Mei before anyways. She just was not as effective as she is now. Mei is most effective at close range but this does not mean she should be totally tiled toward that only. Keep in mind the ONLY effective thing Mei has against snipers is her secondary.
All a sniper has to do to win against Mei isā¦ treat her like any other hero with range.
As for tanks, if tanks are struggling the answer is not nerf Mei. Mei is not the reason tanks are struggling. You donāt keep niche heroās down for generic and nebulous reasons like this.
By this logic you canāt just take away something without compensation as well. In this case Meiās falloff was added without compensation.
However, since this is not the case we donāt need to worry about it. Doing compensation nerf/buffās when making changes assumes a hero is already at max power potential in their kit overall. Which is not always the case.
Bad balancing is when you fail to assess the max power potential of the kit before making changes. For instance, a underpowered hero getting a compensation nerf as a consequence of a buff would also be bad balancing.
Mei has ranged capabilties. She was originally designed with a ranged combat option and had no falloff . Just because you have become use to not having to worry about her outside of CQC does not mean that is how she is forever meant to be.
She is not and has not ever been exclusively close range. Her strength comes when she is in CQC but is not isolated solely to it.
She does 75 damage to a barrier per 1.2 secondsā¦ This is a none issue.
4 Likes